New info on Bobs Grail tapes

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Nick Hughes
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by Nick Hughes »

P C M wrote:I wanna know what show ,if it's not Southhampton Bob has. Could it be an earlier show?
I hope it's a clear recording (in a way,wouldn't matter as long as it's Blizzard Of Ozz featuring Ozzy Osbourne).
I know I wouldn't have to..... but,some fan's might jump to Bob's side now. Way ta' go Bob 8)
Bob didn't say what show

Form an interview on his site he says its a soundboard tape but its unlabeled and he doesn't know from what show it is from
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GUITARIDOL5682
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by GUITARIDOL5682 »

I honestly cannot see how Bob can release any of this material unless it is ok'd by the O's and the Rhoads estate which i'm sure $haron O has a degree of say on, with issues of Ozzy related songs, box set releases etc. When Bob released the Ozzy tunes on his Living Loud CD DVD Ozzy had to be giving credit on the tracks and he will be giving him royalties for the use of those songs. So it should work the same way for this Grail collection of tracks in the making. If it is an Ozzy song demo or Live gig, rehearsal. It is still a product of the band members involved and who performs on it. Or can you use a song as long as it is credited Osbourne, Daisley, Rhoads etc.
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Tito
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by Tito »

Unless bob edits ozzys voice out all together and leaves the musicians he should be ok i would think.
barossadude
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by barossadude »

Ok - going by what Tito said, here is an angle on releasing the grail tapes;
say Ozzy's voice was edited out & only "band jams", musical develpments etc was all you heard. Now going by what the O$bournes have stated many times in the past that Randy, Bob & Lee were just "hired guns" for Ozzy - not an actual band - surely if there was any $ to be made by releasing these tapes, it would go to the 3 musicians heard - because without Ozzy's voice to heard - hell it could be just a back yard garage cover band rehearsing Ozzy songs...

Just my 2 cents about it :)
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mojopin70
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

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GUITARIDOL5682 wrote:I honestly cannot see how Bob can release any of this material unless it is ok'd by the O's and the Rhoads estate which i'm sure $haron O has a degree of say on, with issues of Ozzy related songs, box set releases etc. When Bob released the Ozzy tunes on his Living Loud CD DVD Ozzy had to be giving credit on the tracks and he will be giving him royalties for the use of those songs. So it should work the same way for this Grail collection of tracks in the making. If it is an Ozzy song demo or Live gig, rehearsal. It is still a product of the band members involved and who performs on it. Or can you use a song as long as it is credited Osbourne, Daisley, Rhoads etc.
If he didnt think he could release any of the tapes he wouldnt even be talking about it , and not in any depth like he has done already. All will be revealed soon! Keep the Faith...
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne

It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
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dannyahansen
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by dannyahansen »

Cutting Ozzy's voice out does not lessen the degree of the laws. Ozzy owns the rights to the songs. It is not his voice that is the issue but the actual songs. Now some of the band jam stuff is no issue. But the sound board tape is and some of the other stuff would be too.

I am not sure how Bob will do this. I support it though and would do a prepay for this. In the end Ozzy might not even care. The reality is that not much money is in the project so Ozzy just might not care either way. It really is more to set the record straight on how things came together.
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by dannyahansen »

GUITARIDOL5682 wrote:I honestly cannot see how Bob can release any of this material unless it is ok'd by the O's and the Rhoads estate which i'm sure $haron O has a degree of say on, with issues of Ozzy related songs, box set releases etc. When Bob released the Ozzy tunes on his Living Loud CD DVD Ozzy had to be giving credit on the tracks and he will be giving him royalties for the use of those songs. So it should work the same way for this Grail collection of tracks in the making. If it is an Ozzy song demo or Live gig, rehearsal. It is still a product of the band members involved and who performs on it. Or can you use a song as long as it is credited Osbourne, Daisley, Rhoads etc.
I am not 100% sure on this. You might be right about just giving credit and giving the royalties. That is all that might be required.

I mean, I am not sure any of us our qualified on this. Not that we are claiming what Bob can do. I just don't know the legalities of it all fully.
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GUITARIDOL5682
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by GUITARIDOL5682 »

Well i know if a band cover a song you have to give the original writers credit. If you are one of those writers you can play the song live. You can re-record the song but again the original writers all have to be giving full credit. As 'the Grail' is not an original product, but in demo form. Would the guys playing on the material have to be giving an equal royalty ?. Kerslake Daisley Osbourne Rhoads as they are not played as a finished track. Plus the O$bournes are aware that Bob is wanting to release these. If they are released, would they have to be done under Bob's name only as he is the original owner of the product master. I couldn't see him wanting to give Ozzy credit or a royalty on a product that was never officially released.
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by mojopin70 »

dannyahansen wrote:Cutting Ozzy's voice out does not lessen the degree of the laws. Ozzy owns the rights to the songs. It is not his voice that is the issue but the actual songs. Now some of the band jam stuff is no issue. But the sound board tape is and some of the other stuff would be too.

I am not sure how Bob will do this. I support it though and would do a prepay for this. In the end Ozzy might not even care. The reality is that not much money is in the project so Ozzy just might not care either way. It really is more to set the record straight on how things came together.

Thats the thing though, they werent songs it is writing material that was taking shape and they only had working titles, and some sections werent written or had other sections in place before new ones were written . You cant own something that hasnt been written or only partially written right? If you listen to the clips Bob put up on his site would you be able to define - apart from a very early version of Crazy Train and YLAMLAY what was being heard?
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne

It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by dannyahansen »

I dunno about all the legalities of this. What ever does happen I am sure Bob will do what ever is according to the law. He seems like an upstanding fellow. And so far has given me no reason to not trust him what he does. Not that that matters much anyway but I am just throwing my support out there for Bob.
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by rokket »

There's no way Ozzy's voice is going to be edited from the tapes.....How? The original source is Cassette.....not four track cassette or reel to reel tape......they are two channel stereo cassettes, no different to what you or I would buy back in the 70's and 80's.

There's also the issue of the Osbourne's owning the original songs 'in their final arrangement', but does that mean all and any arrangement? Sure the O's own the song titles as well, but once 'Steal Away The Night' becomes, "Steal Away Early Arrangement", that's not a title copyright 'Osbourne' any longer.
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by mojopin70 »

rokket wrote:There's no way Ozzy's voice is going to be edited from the tapes.....How? The original source is Cassette.....not four track cassette or reel to reel tape......they are two channel stereo cassettes, no different to what you or I would buy back in the 70's and 80's.

There's also the issue of the Osbourne's owning the original songs 'in their final arrangement', but does that mean all and any arrangement? Sure the O's own the song titles as well, but once 'Steal Away The Night' becomes, "Steal Away Early Arrangement", that's not a title copyright 'Osbourne' any longer.

Theyve been converted to a digital format so it would be possible edit out Ozzy in theory........

The O`s or simply put $haron doesn't own writing sessions of songs that were early versions of later finalized songs because they were not properly defined or finished they were riffs,melodies,developing ideas,or songs taking shape,sections that were used then changed etc that didn't have titles or just working titles, they only own the final recorded versions which were released publicly for the consumer........

$haron has no control over this one.
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne

It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
estang74
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by estang74 »

mojopin70 wrote:
rokket wrote:There's no way Ozzy's voice is going to be edited from the tapes.....How? The original source is Cassette.....not four track cassette or reel to reel tape......they are two channel stereo cassettes, no different to what you or I would buy back in the 70's and 80's.

There's also the issue of the Osbourne's owning the original songs 'in their final arrangement', but does that mean all and any arrangement? Sure the O's own the song titles as well, but once 'Steal Away The Night' becomes, "Steal Away Early Arrangement", that's not a title copyright 'Osbourne' any longer.

Theyve been converted to a digital format so it would be possible edit out Ozzy in theory........

The O`s or simply put $haron doesn't own writing sessions of songs that were early versions of later finalized songs because they were not properly defined or finished they were riffs,melodies,developing ideas,or songs taking shape,sections that were used then changed etc that didn't have titles or just working titles, they only own the final recorded versions which were released publicly for the consumer........

$haron has no control over this one.
Doesn't matter if it's converted to digital, if it wasn't recorded with individual tracks, you can not mute anything out of the mix.
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Tito
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by Tito »

True.bob will probably release just the music cuz either way i bet the trio were jamming ideas and bob recorded those..
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Re: New info on Bobs Grail tapes

Post by sytharnia »

estang74 wrote: Doesn't matter if it's converted to digital, if it wasn't recorded with individual tracks, you can not mute anything out of the mix.
there are vocal removal plugins but they never leave the remaining audio sound to great
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