On Bob and Lee's input

[hansolo]

RR+OO+BD+LK=GREAT F'ING ALBUMS! Randy was in an interview, he paid his drummer a compliment and told the truth. Had Randy entered the studio with Tommy, well that's another debate...

[GUITARIDOL5682]

On the question of Bob and Lee being let go. Randy mentions at one of his seminars that Ozzy was making a fresh start and Bob and Lee had been around for awhile. He states that they were not big on touring. He aludes to Ozzy also wanting fresh talent (maybe younger guys) for the tour. Whether this is true or just Randy saying something he was told to say who knows?

At the time back in 1980 the first UK tour. You had an ex Sabbath front man called Ozzy Osbourne you'd have people who would have an idea who Kerslake and Daisley are from Rainbow & Uriah Heep. Randy Rhoads was an unknown player and only a few people would of been switched on to his Quiet Riot days. The majority of the paying crowd would of been Black Sabbath fans. So on the night of the gigs in 1980 the fans shouted Ozzy Ozzy ....!!!!. The music went down great the atmosphere was wild and Ozzy had the crowd in the palm of his hand. The front rows of all the gigs had a drenched posse of fans wanting Ozzy to swill them with buckets of water. The fans went nuts and loved every minute of the gig. The rest of the band lapped up the atmosphere including Randy. He became more recognised as the tour continued and the fans heard those early Ozzy albums. So the nucleus of the band worked and the UK crowd loved them. Why go on a search for younger talent who may have been less of a writer / player ?. Why bite off the hand that feeds you. Ozzy bit off more then he could chew when he wanted Aldridge in the band. He made a bad decision and with that decision Daisley had to go because of the Osbourne's wrong moves. I'm sure that the European & USA tours would of been just as successful with the earlier line up. But thats something we can only speculate on now.

[shred1]

Sorry, I totally disagree with that.
Hardly a bad decision to get Tommy in.
Bob's comment that Tommy was no good in the studio is bullshit.

No one wants to comment on the fact that Bob eventually bailed on Lee too.

[GUITARIDOL5682]

Sorry, I totally disagree with that.
Hardly a bad decision to get Tommy in.
Bob's comment that Tommy was no good in the studio is bullshit.

No one wants to comment on the fact that Bob eventually bailed on Lee too.

I'm letting you know what it was like leading up to the time of Bob & Lee being fired. If it wasn't for Ozzy wanting Tommy Aldridge in the band the situation my never have changed. Remember they had been through a massive list of drummers to find Lee Kerslake. So it wasn't like he was the dead beat drummer who would be surplus to the band. He was a vital part in the rhythm section. I love Tommy as a drummer but for the sake of ego's and changing the band line up every 5 minutes. I would say that Bob did leave because he could see how easy the O's would hire and fire people. He only went back to Ozzy because he knew he would be getting a good pay cheque and he probably had no work at the time. How many people change jobs if the circumstances come about and the money is better.

[shred1]

How many people change jobs if the circumstances come about and the money is better.

It was Ozzy's band, regardless of what Bob says.
He wanted a certain drummer.

Sharon has stated, and I believe this one, that she feared they would hijack the tour - meaning, wait until your in Des Moines and about to go onstage, then demand a raise.

So, we are talking about money again, not music. And the money was not coming in yet when this all went down. With record deals, the musicians get paid last.

Meanwhile, Bob to Lee.... 'Sorry mate, even though they stiffed us, I am going back.'

Wonder if Bob ever wishes he would have just said, 'sure bring Tommy in, if that is who you want'.

I mean, he wasn't THAT loyal to Lee either.

[whoopiecat]

...and directly after recording BATM, Tommy is fired (Sept 83), only to be rehired further down the road as second fiddle to Carmine Appice (March 84), whose celebrity was wearing on Sharon, then Tommy quits for good following the Rock In Rio one-off show (Jan 85).
They pursued this guy with great interest, then realized once they had him, he wasn't what they really wanted.
Where did Sharon state that she feared Bob and Lee would "hijack"the tour? Sorry, I'd really like a link for that particular quote, as I have a hard time imagining her fearing anything or anyone.

In regards to bailing on Lee:

So Bob left Heep in 1983?

He was offered the chance to write with Ozzy. Words, music - write the album. Sharon thought "Hang on. Let's get some of the talent back, and get Bob." Because he was a good writer. He said to me "I don't know what to do." I said "Bob, I'll tell you what to do - Go! If you're getting that kind of money to go and do an album - you've got to, mate. You've got to." You don't often get the opportunity to write another album for $50-60,000 or whatever it is. Go for it.
http://www.bobdaisley.com/interview/fuse-lee-kerslake

~T.

[rokket]

...and directly after recording BATM, Tommy is fired (Sept 83), only to be rehired further down the road as second fiddle to Carmine Appice (March 84), whose celebrity was wearing on Sharon, then Tommy quits for good following the Rock In Rio one-off show (Jan 85).
They pursued this guy with great interest, then realized once they had him, he wasn't what they really wanted.
Where did Sharon state that she feared Bob and Lee would "hijack"the tour? Sorry, I'd really like a link for that particular quote, as I have a hard time imagining her fearing anything or anyone.

In regards to bailing on Lee:

So Bob left Heep in 1983?

He was offered the chance to write with Ozzy. Words, music - write the album. Sharon thought "Hang on. Let's get some of the talent back, and get Bob." Because he was a good writer. He said to me "I don't know what to do." I said "Bob, I'll tell you what to do - Go! If you're getting that kind of money to go and do an album - you've got to, mate. You've got to." You don't often get the opportunity to write another album for $50-60,000 or whatever it is. Go for it.
http://www.bobdaisley.com/interview/fuse-lee-kerslake

~T.

Well put.

[shred1]

Again, you are missing a super important detail out. They were suing the employer he went back to. C'mon. Not smart. Very foolish.

Everyone gets fired from Ozzy. Hell, Ozzy even tried to get rid of Sharon at one point (!)

Tommy has stated over and over that the the only reason he joined was because of RR. He wasn't crazy about Ozzy.

Look, I'm not going to look for an exact quote, as the last time I posted her quotes here they are deemed out of hand as bullshit. A waste of time.
"They were always bitching about money" is a line we have all heard from Sharon. Agreed?

Considering they were prepping for a two year road run, the most important one of Ozzy's career, I believe Sharon on that one. Lee wouldn't last the whole tour.

But everything Bob says is gospel.

Bob chases the dollar and kicks his buddy to the curb and its justified. The Osbournes chase the dollar and they are crooks. The motive is the same.

And I had heard Carmine's renderings of those Ozzy songs. Not very impressed, he sounds flat footed and behind, to say the least. Carmine and Bob should get along fine, as Appice suffered a similar fate with Rod Stewart.....'but, I wrote Do Ya Think I'm Sexy', really, I deserve the credit. I taught Bonzo everything he knows' Yawn. Not a Carmine fan at all.

'We fired him for medical reasons, he was making us sick'. Classic!

'Its all in my book, mate.' BUY IT.

[whoopiecat]

Well, you accuse Bob of bailing on Lee, I found an interview where Lee was ok with Bob going back to Ozzy to make some cash, now you switch to accusing Bob of chasing the dollar, like the Osbournes.
Bob is just looking to get what's rigtfully his, but you somehow seem to have him pegged as an asshole, a backstabber and I guess a criminal of some sort.
Thanks for considering providing me with the quote I requested from you as a waste of your time...much appreciated.
This is tiresome, I'm going swimming.

~T.

[shred1]

I found a quote from Guitar World by Sharon, to back up a previous 'disagreement'.
It was deemed crap. Dismissed immediately.
I mention that Bob and his legal team will be raking his book for legal complications and I get told Bob can say what ever he wants. Here.
Again, dismissed. Someone else says the same thing, and it is deemed a good point.

No one said Bob is a criminal, but his motive is clear. He is looking to make some money. Fair enough. What is the motive behind O&$ and the way they do business? They are trying to make money. The goal is the same. No switch whoopiecat.

Asshole, backstabber? Your words not mine. You are twisting my words to make your point. Not cool.

Last post on the subject, as we can discuss until we are blue in the face, and it doesn't change anything.
Enjoy your swim.

cheers

[Bongo Christ]

Agree with every point you've made, unfortunately those in the 'Bob corner' seem to take his lawsuits and whatnot far too personally, almost as if it had happened to them. It was and still is Ozzy's band. Hopefully this too will be my last post on the matter but somehow I doubt it.

[Sky]

Again, you are missing a super important detail out. They were suing the employer he went back to. C'mon. Not smart. Very foolish.

Everyone gets fired from Ozzy. Hell, Ozzy even tried to get rid of Sharon at one point (!)

Tommy has stated over and over that the the only reason he joined was because of RR. He wasn't crazy about Ozzy.

Look, I'm not going to look for an exact quote, as the last time I posted her quotes here they are deemed out of hand as bullshit. A waste of time.
"They were always bitching about money" is a line we have all heard from Sharon. Agreed?

Considering they were prepping for a two year road run, the most important one of Ozzy's career, I believe Sharon on that one. Lee wouldn't last the whole tour.

But everything Bob says is gospel.

Bob chases the dollar and kicks his buddy to the curb and its justified. The Osbournes chase the dollar and they are crooks. The motive is the same.

And I had heard Carmine's renderings of those Ozzy songs. Not very impressed, he sounds flat footed and behind, to say the least. Carmine and Bob should get along fine, as Appice suffered a similar fate with Rod Stewart.....'but, I wrote Do Ya Think I'm Sexy', really, I deserve the credit. I taught Bonzo everything he knows' Yawn. Not a Carmine fan at all.

'We fired him for medical reasons, he was making us sick'. Classic!

'Its all in my book, mate.' BUY IT.

Actually, you are missing a super important detail out. Bob and Lee were suing Don Arden and Jet Records when Bob went back to work with Ozzy. Furthermore, Sharon and Ozzy were helping Bob in his lawsuit!

[halo8th]

well, the bottom line is that there are a couple indisputable facts that make all this seem suspicious on the Osbourne's part.
1. They've been caught in numerous lies (Sharon herself should win some kind of Guiness award for lying...)
2. Those aren't the only band members they've treated like garbage or tried to "erase" from the history books. Just ask one Mr. Jake E Lee. Carmine, mentioned above, hated them. And on and on.

As also said above, this thread is getting tired, and this is my last comment on all this. I stand by what i said. Without Bob's writing, i don't CARE if it's "ozzy's band" and his "name" on the marquee (thats beside the point and doesn't matter..), there would be no riches, no big bank accounts, no mansions, for Ozzy and Sharon. Bob doesn't write those classic lyrics and song arrangements, they don't take the shape and form that they did. And that career doesn't take off like it did. Ozzy likely would have been club-status at best.

[rokket]

I think everyone has vaild points from their own stand point. I mean, it all depends on how look choose to see it. I'm a huge fan of the music, but I don't call it or see it as Ozzy's, because, after all, Ozzy hasn't really written much of it, I see Ozzy as the 'voice' of the music and the one who's name it is presented/marketed and sold under, thats it IMO.

Personally, I think we'll see Bob and the Osbourne's back in a court of law one day in the near future. Not over royalties either.

[sytharnia]

I think everyone has vaild points from their own stand point. I mean, it all depends on how look choose to see it. I'm a huge fan of the music, but I don't call it or see it as Ozzy's, because, after all, Ozzy hasn't really written much of it, I see Ozzy as the 'voice' of the music and the one who's name it is presented/marketed and sold under, thats it IMO.

Personally, I think we'll see Bob and the Osbourne's back in a court of law one day in the near future. Not over royalties either.

I am pretty much the complete opposite....for me it is all about ozzy. Yes he is the "voice" etc but if it wasn't for ozzy being the singer I never would have bought BOO, DOAM, BATM, TUS etc etc etc....
just to go slightly of topic but if DIO singing paranoid was how sabbath sounded originally would they have been as big as they are??...I love everything the RJD did with sabbath but I struggle to listen to live evil with DIO's vocals on the ozzy songs..I rate "mob rules" in my top 10 albums ever but ronnie singing ozzy doesn't work for me. I am a fan of a few bands where the singer is just that "the singer" and doesn't write much (motley crue, skid row), but it doesn't lessen the important's of their role

I guess what I am trying to say is no matter how good/great bob (or randy for that matter) is as a writer/arranger/lyricist, it is ozzy's voice that holds the magic for me.. i love jake as much and I do randy but I couldn't give a flying F about the songs without ozzy...yes I love badlands, but not as much as BATM or TUS