1983 - What If??

[AndrewT1976]

This site is so great.

I was thinking...in so many interviews Ozzy mentions that after he got booted out of Sabbath he felt like he was over and done with. He felt like nobody would ever give him another shot or believe in him. Well, honestly - when your voice blows 90 percent of the time, you don't write your own lyrics, and you act like a drunk - then I agree with what Ozzy believed.

Just so funny that all the talent he's had surround him all these years with the creation of his music and lyrics, and his wife dresses him and points him towards the nearest bus and says "see you in 6 months - and don't forget to bring home a lot of money."

I mean, how did this guy ever REALLY do it?????????

[sytharnia]

This site is so great.

I was thinking...in so many interviews Ozzy mentions that after he got booted out of Sabbath he felt like he was over and done with. He felt like nobody would ever give him another shot or believe in him. Well, honestly - when your voice blows 90 percent of the time, you don't write your own lyrics, and you act like a drunk - then I agree with what Ozzy believed.

Just so funny that all the talent he's had surround him all these years with the creation of his music and lyrics, and his wife dresses him and points him towards the nearest bus and says "see you in 6 months - and don't forget to bring home a lot of money."

I mean, how did this guy ever REALLY do it?????????

I think you are underestimating the importance of what ozzy did contribute.....

A unique voice that appealed to many
A brilliant melody writer.....once you have a really strong vocal melody, writing lyrics to fit is very easy
The ability to know amazing talent when he hears it

Ultimately if it wasn't for ozzy osbourne then all this great talent you talk about would still most likely be nobody's

[AndrewT1976]

Good point. His voice is very unique, and definitely rad. I can agree with some of your other points too.

[hansolo]

I wish I could remember which article I read it in but Ozzy once said that Randy was experimenting with echo delay towards the end and that it sounded incredible. I'm guessing from what Oz said that RR was trying out a few things at some of the soundchecks to see how his new ideas sounded in the arenas right from the get-go.

I think it was on the back of a guitar FTPM poster (Randy B&W) and the name was Randy's last tape. Maybe it was around the time Tribute was released. You can hear what Ozzy was saying on a few of the Stereo Soundboards (Diary tour) when Randy kicked on a delay and on one side you had the stable dry image and the other was wet and he would do a slight bend, trill or scale and it had the effect of double tracking.

[axeman_12656]

I mean, how did this guy ever REALLY do it?????????

on the CLASSIC ALBUMS: PARANOID dvd Tony Iommi made this comment

"Ozzy doesn't get enough credit for his song writting contributions"

That was all I needed to hear.

Then it later went on to play demos of War Pigs and maybe a few others where Ozzy would be throwing down melodies and just making lyrics up... Most of what he came up with they used... Geezer just rounded it into form. He would write from whatever Topic Ozzy threw out while scratch tracking the session.

It was interesting.

[tedeeoo]

sorry to burst your bubble about bark at the moon but apart from the title that song is all jake and bob....in this interview jake said the riff was written when he was in rough cutt ( http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/node/249 ) ....I know ozzy made him change it a little (speed it up mainly) but it has nothing to do with randy. I also know that bob has said that nothing he and randy were working on has been used on other ozzy albums

1000% percent agree with this comment.

[axeman_12656]

sorry to burst your bubble about bark at the moon but apart from the title that song is all jake and bob....in this interview jake said the riff was written when he was in rough cutt ( http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/node/249 ) ....I know ozzy made him change it a little (speed it up mainly) but it has nothing to do with randy. I also know that bob has said that nothing he and randy were working on has been used on other ozzy albums

1000% percent agree with this comment.

BUT!!!!! Bob wasn't in the band when Randy died. So Bob wouldn't be aware of any material written shrotly before his death

[tedeeoo]

sorry to burst your bubble about bark at the moon but apart from the title that song is all jake and bob....in this interview jake said the riff was written when he was in rough cutt ( http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/node/249 ) ....I know ozzy made him change it a little (speed it up mainly) but it has nothing to do with randy. I also know that bob has said that nothing he and randy were working on has been used on other ozzy albums

1000% percent agree with this comment.

BUT!!!!! Bob wasn't in the band when Randy died. So Bob wouldn't be aware of any material written shrotly before his death

Bob wrote or co-wrote everything on BOO,DOM,BATM, all but one song on TUS, and pretty much all of NRFTW, so I kind of think he's familiar with whos ideas were whos. He has specifically stated on numerous occasions that he and Jake wrote the BATM record and that none of the ideas were left over from Randys time with Ozzy.

[AndrewT1976]

Does anyone know if Rudy was a writer? If so, was he collaborating with Randy during the last tour at all?

[tedeeoo]

[quote="AndrewT1976"]Does anyone know if Rudy was a writer? If so, was he collaborating with Randy during the last tour at all?[/quote


I have never seen anything that said that, come to think of it I've never seen Rudy listed as a writer in any group he's been in (but he may have been). I would think if he and Randy had been writing he would have mentioned it in his book. And just to clarify some of my earlier post on this, I am NOT saying Randy had not been working on new material for another Ozzy album, I'm just saying that according to all of the principle players that if he had been none of it ended up being used for Bark at the Moon. Ozzy has never even said anything to that effect.

[hansolo]

[quote="AndrewT1976"]Sometimes I like to play make believe that Randy would have recorded another album with the Ozz.

The album would have been called "Killer of Giants" instead of "Bark at the Moon." The cover of the LP would have looked similar to Yngwie Malmsteen's Trilogy album (except - Randy would be aiming his Polka Dot V at the dragon and flames would be shooting).


I think you were listening to the 1981 Ozzy interview with Janet Miram in Rochester, NY before After hours and a day before the Rochester April 29, 1981. He mentions both titles (BATM and KOG) to come after Diary. It's TRUE, Value, Hardware...

[whoopiecat]

In my opinion, Rudy Sarzo is an opportunistic hack that has leapfrogged from one band to another, playing notes someone else wrote. He just happened to have the looks and stage presence to pull it off.
Had the bus gone on to Orlando, instead of stopping in Leesburg, Randy would have eventually realized the mistake that was made in firing Bob. He would have seen for himself that his buddy from his club days with Quiet Riot could indeed play, but certainly could not write. Definitely not in the caliber of the first two albums.
That would have been an embarrasing moment for Randy, as Rudy was there on Randy's endorsement.
Sarzo has the distinction of having his name on three albums he did not play on, (the third being the 87 Whitesnake album). I'd almost say four albums, as it still remains unclear how much of Chuck Wright's written and recorded contributions remain on Metal Health.
The only props I can really give Rudy is his performance on SOTD, but again, his forte is the live stage, and of course, those are Butler's basslines. Ozzy himself no longer acknowledges that album and has deleted it from existence.
I think the "What If" album would have been somewhat tense. Randy would have given a great and professional effort, but he would also be looking forward to leaving the road, (possibly for good), and heading back to school. His head and heart no longer entirely in the game. I'm not sure if his contract stipulated just a third album, or if it included that he tour to support that album as well.
Eventually, he would have been let go from the band anyway, as he was giving clinics during the day and making quite a name for himself. We see how that worked out for Carmine Appice.
I wonder if Ozzy would have wound up with George Lynch after all, as this time, George would have had Randy's endorsement being Randy and EVH allegedly thought Lynch was the hottest guitarist in L.A.
There is a passage in the Sharpe-Young book that alludes to the template that Randy had inadvertently created in shaping the Ozzy "Sound" that became the standard every subsequent guitarist had to adhere to, and a box they weren't allowed to step to far outside of.
I think this is why people hear the Rhoads influence especially in BATM, as the pressure was high to see if the group still had it after the loss, and the record execs were looking for repeat success.
Remember, Daisley and Airey are on that album too, and some of the magic from those first two albums are theirs, too.

[AndrewT1976]

All great points everybody.

I think what it all comes down too is this

1. Bob was a great songwriter
2. Bob worked closely with Randy in the studio AND outside the studio
3. Bob continued to work with Ozzy in the studio after Randy died

So, I wonder if sometimes Bob would remember a little thing that Randy did (or wrote out) as a riff, and maybe used that in one of the BATM or TUS albums? I guess we'll never know, BUT, I can tell you - from my involvement as a bassist in bands over the years, I always remembered ideas from previous bands, and in all honesty I'd just change a few notes maybe and keep the same idea (generally) if I actually liked it as a part of a new tune or something. Musicians always influence each other regardless....

[AndrewT1976]

For example - I really believe that Randy Rhoads used George Lynch's "extended tapping technique" for the last part of the guitar solo on Flying High Again. It just makes sense. Randy doesn't really use that technique anywhere else, and I know that him and Lynch shared mutual admiration for their capabilities and innovation.

That particular lick was used by Lynch everywhere in Breaking the Chains LP through Tooth and Nail.

I think George knows, and feels really great about Randy maybe using his idea.

God knows how many guitarists used Randy's ideas!

[Phineas J]

Astute point about Sarzo. He has made a career (and a long one at that) being a tour bass player. He is not credited on the whitesnake stuff from 87. Neil Murray was the bassist then if I recall and Airey was supposedly called in for keyboard work on that one too LOL! Rudy wasnt even the bass player on all of Metal Health too. The famous Metal Health bass line was Chuck Wright's work.

The point about his writing skills may be pretty correct. He hasnt ever really been credited as a creative member of any band AFAIK.

Didnt Rudy and Ozzy fight towards the end of the SOTD era? I think I remember Ozzy punching him or blackening Rudy's eye or something? If that was the case, Rudy may have exited for QR anyway...leaving the return of Bob to come in and create songs with Randy for the next Ozzy record.

Fun to speculate. Randy was a ball of creative fire then.