why didn't RANDY DIDN'T GO "FLOYD" ON THE PDV???

[Paul Wolfe]

In my opinion, the reasons Randy didn't go the Floyd route on the Sandoval V are pretty simple: it wasn't patented until '79 which means it wasn't readily available when Randy's guitar was built. Floyd was still making them by hand and was banking on Ed's popularity to get his product off the ground.

In addition, Randy was used to playing a Les Paul. Anyone who plays a guitar without a trem knows it takes some getting used to. Randy was well known for not doing things he didn't have time to get comfortable with. He had played a certain way for ages, so adding the trem would have required thinking of ways to incorporate it into his playing. Randy liked players who used finger vibrato, so he worked at being good at that.

...I also like Ronnie Montrose, especially with Edgar Winter. I like the way he bends; I could never bend like that. I liked all the English players in the '70s who used a lot of vibrato.

Finally, Randy was trying to make a name for himself, right? Ed Van Halen had already made a name for himself and relied heavily on the bar. Randy tried to do things differently so as not to be seen as a clone of Ed... not using the bar was probably part of that.

Both Jake and Zakk intentionally used guitars without trems because they'd become a crutch for so many players. Zakk even went as far as relying on the pentatonic minor scale rather than applying modes so he wouldn't look like a Randy clone.

So, did RR use a bar on occasion? Sure. But the original question was why didn't he use a Floyd on Karl Sandoval's V?

in that period of '79 the Floyd was still a garage thing w/out a lock nut... we all knew the limitations of the fender bar back then & played accordingly... that's it...

I'm assuming that's a quote from Mr. Sandoval? There's your answer...

All this bickering about pulling up on a floating Floyd (rarely used prior to Vai who was also trying to distance himself from Ed) and blocking a Floyd (only done if you buy a guitar with a floating Floyd and don't want it to float) is just off the original topic - which is fine if that's where you want the discussion to go.

[Solos]

crazy train- no bar-watch the vids. there's no bar on that les paul.

otm- he did use the bar on over the mountain.

just throwing those in.

There is a trem dip on the studio recording of Crazy Train, right before the trills on the high E string. This would be impossible to do by bending the neck and since he used the Les Paul for that song live, he changed the part. Also, he manipulates the 5th fret harmonics during the prechorus with the bar on the record, but bent the neck live.

[Solos]

In my opinion, the reasons Randy didn't go the Floyd route on the Sandoval V are pretty simple: it wasn't patented until '79 which means it wasn't readily available when Randy's guitar was built. Floyd was still making them by hand and was banking on Ed's popularity to get his product off the ground.

In addition, Randy was used to playing a Les Paul. Anyone who plays a guitar without a trem knows it takes some getting used to. Randy was well known for not doing things he didn't have time to get comfortable with. He had played a certain way for ages, so adding the trem would have required thinking of ways to incorporate it into his playing. Randy liked players who used finger vibrato, so he worked at being good at that.

...I also like Ronnie Montrose, especially with Edgar Winter. I like the way he bends; I could never bend like that. I liked all the English players in the '70s who used a lot of vibrato.

Finally, Randy was trying to make a name for himself, right? Ed Van Halen had already made a name for himself and relied heavily on the bar. Randy tried to do things differently so as not to be seen as a clone of Ed... not using the bar was probably part of that.

Both Jake and Zakk intentionally used guitars without trems because they'd become a crutch for so many players. Zakk even went as far as relying on the pentatonic minor scale rather than applying modes so he wouldn't look like a Randy clone.

So, did RR use a bar on occasion? Sure. But the original question was why didn't he use a Floyd on Karl Sandoval's V?

in that period of '79 the Floyd was still a garage thing w/out a lock nut... we all knew the limitations of the fender bar back then & played accordingly... that's it...

I'm assuming that's a quote from Mr. Sandoval? There's your answer...

All this bickering about pulling up on a floating Floyd (rarely used prior to Vai who was also trying to distance himself from Ed) and blocking a Floyd (only done if you buy a guitar with a floating Floyd and don't want it to float) is just off the original topic - which is fine if that's where you want the discussion to go.

Randy also stated that he was trying to make a name for himself as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, that also meant doing the "hip" licks of the day. Whammy stuff was part of that. Listen to his unaccompanied for proof of that.

As for pulling up on the bar, a guy named Brad Gillis would probably disagree that Vai was the first guy in the public eye to do that as stylistic trait.

[Paul Wolfe]

Randy also stated that he was trying to make a name for himself as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, that also meant doing the "hip" licks of the day. Whammy stuff was part of that. Listen to his unaccompanied for proof of that.

As for pulling up on the bar, a guy named Brad Gillis would probably disagree that Vai was the first guy in the public eye to do that as stylistic trait.

The V was made prior to auditioning for Ozzy, so the idea of making a name as quickly as possible doesn't apply to the original topic. However I agree with your point.

As far as Gillis goes, he falls into the 'rarely used prior to Vai' category. I hadn't thought of him as a Floyd user when I posted, thanks for pointing him out.

[Solos]

dude, like look at the sheet music for the tribute cd and tell me how many times did randy use the trem bar in each of those songs.

I looked at a tab book blah blah blah....

there you have it. I just looked through every measure. You can basically count on your fingers all the times Randy used the trem bar on the entire Tribute CD!

Dude, you tried to call me out as if I don't know what I'm talking about, you just ate your words man.

Perhaps your ears can't tell when someone is doing virbrato & slides by hand or when they are using a actual bar, Randy hardly touched the damn bar.

End of story.5.

First off, I have NEVER seen a tab that was 100% accurate, so your source of information is hardly credible. Second, the fact that you are downplaying certain instances doesn't change the fact that Randy used the bar or bent his guitar neck to simulate bar use often during the set.

You're right, my ears probably can't decifer the techniques a guitar player uses. Nevermind that I've been playing guitar for over 20 years, alot of that time in bands. As a matter of fact, why don't you post some video examples of you playing the tribule stuff note for note so you can school me.

I wasn't really trying to call you out before... that is happening right now in case you missed it.

[Tito]

solos i can vouch for the tribute songbook dots is refering to...wolf marshall has to be the only guy i seen that gets randys playing down to a science and he breaks down every minute detail...later on when things started popping up on randy the after hours bootleg and youtube stuff etc wolfs spot on with positions bending trills whatever so wolf to me is the only authority on randy i would recommend trying to learn randys stuff the right way..

[Solos]

solos i can vouch for the tribute songbook dots is refering to...wolf marshall has to be the only guy i seen that gets randys playing down to a science and he breaks down every minute detail...later on when things started popping up on randy the after hours bootleg and youtube stuff etc wolfs spot on with positions bending trills whatever so wolf to me is the only authority on randy i would recommend trying to learn randys stuff the right way..

The same Tribute book where in the performance notes section at the beginning Wolf Marshall mentions that Randy manipulates the tremelo bar in just about every way during his live performance? Yeah, I've had that since it came out in the mid 80's. It is a good jumping off point, but far from note for note perfect. Wolf Marshall has done alot of valuable transcription work though obviously.

Randy Chambers and Des Sherwood from RRTK do the best RR covers I've heard. Most pale in comparison and miss the little things that really put Randy's stamp on it. If Mr. Dots can do Tribute note for note, he must be quite a prodigy....

[Tito]

i would guess wolf meant when it was called for the few songs he did use it?what do i know..

[thepolkadots]

to SOLOS: It certainly don't take a prodigy to play Randys songs note for note, haha! It dosen't take a prodigy to play ANYONES music note for note, whether it be Malmsteen, Vai or Mozart or Beethoven. Playing something note for note is exactly like painting by numbers.
The thing that takes TALENT is to be ORIGINAL, not COPY what someone else has already composed.
As far as videos on YouTube, I have many videos on youtube. But I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone else. I have seen all of Randy Chambers videos, and he does not impress me at all in his -accuracy- of Randys songs, he plays them Sloppy, and improvises too much. I only play the songs on the Tribute CD and I do it right, according to the Wold Marshall transcribed Tribute Book, and I have followed along with the CD thousands of times as I play the guitar with the CD and look at the book, and I do not see where Wolf Marshall has transcribed anything incorrectly. As for your guitar skills, dude who cares you are a nobody, you think 20 years of playing means anything? I've been playing guitar for 28 years, got you beat by several years there boy. As far as Wolf Marshall saying Randy manipulated the bar every way possible, that's a big exageration, that's what you get for believing everything you read dummy.

As far as you calling me out, dude you are a joke, haha! I have proven everything you've said in this post totally wrong, hahahaha!

You've got what 40 posts in this group? what's up with that? I've been posting in these groups for years.

Give me a call sometime, 512-367-3629 I will be sure to set you straight on everything and I will even make a video of it and upload it to youtube to further humiliate you.

You mess with the Rose, and you'll get the thorns...

[thepolkadots]

To Solos: one more thing, you said I was trying to downplay Randys use of the trem bar, no I was just telling it as it truly is. You on the other hand tried to make Randys trem use out to be way more than it was, I said originally on here he hardly used the bar, you then went on to list all these songs you say Randy uses the bar alot, You made a accusation, I proved your accusation wrong when I present you with all the sheet music of the Tribute CD and pointed out to you the ONLY times the bar was used, and even pointed out the times it "sounds" like it was used, but wasn't, due to bending the neck, or string behind the nut, only because you mentioned those things, Anyhoo, you don't have a leg to stand on. YOu just lost your debate with me, I presented you with facts you can't debate any further. The Tribute Tab book is accurate, we are not talking about any other crappy tab books you may have seen, we are talking about the Tribute tab book, believe me it's accurate, it has every pick scrap and bend, every note and noise Randy made on that CD written out for all to see and disect. It's not rocket science boy.

[thepolkadots]

Also just to add more insult to your serious injuries, brain injuries that must be, haha, apparently from your lack of intelligence, SOLOS....

Randy used the Gibson for most of his songs live, it has no trem bar, and even his newest black jackson had no trem, Randy was not that into the trem bar, and has I originally commented....... RANDY HARDLY EVER EVEN USED THE TREM BAR WHEN HE DID USE IT!

You wanna hear what REALLY using a trem bar sounds like you fool????????????? LISTEN TO PASSION & WARFARE CD BY STEVE VAI............

[thepolkadots]

2 more things for solos:

first if you think the Tribute tab is innacurate then point out all the inaccuracies before you make ludichrist accusations. and if you think you can find fault with that books accuracy, then why aren't you getting paid the big bucks like wolf marshall to trancribe Randys music and write books on his technique, haha I will tell you why Solos, cause you are a NOBODY talking nothing but crap.

Second. Randy Chambers is just average in his attempts at trying to duplicate Randys songs, watch this video This guy is FAR better at duplicating Randys songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCjwtkHkyyU

[thepolkadots]

You know what Solos, the more I think about it, I think you are just a TROLL in this group.

[Solos]

2 more things for solos:

first if you think the Tribute tab is innacurate then point out all the inaccuracies before you make ludichrist accusations. and if you think you can find fault with that books accuracy, then why aren't you getting paid the big bucks like wolf marshall to trancribe Randys music and write books on his technique, haha I will tell you why Solos, cause you are a NOBODY talking nothing but crap.

Second. Randy Chambers is just average in his attempts at trying to duplicate Randys songs, watch this video This guy is FAR better at duplicating Randys songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCjwtkHkyyU

If you think that is better than the Rhoads to Oz stuff, you seriously need your hearing checked. I don't want to bust on the guy... he did a good job. But, there's way too many mistakes to call that note for note perfect or imply that is even in the same universe. Besides... I want to hear YOU play it note for note. I'm far more interested in that.

To even things up, I'll post a version I did of the Crowley solo a few years ago when my brother and I used to jam with my nephews. Is it perfect? Hell no... Its way too fast for one and not really a serious "gig".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0eP8ldDAsI

While were on the topic of Ozzy, my band plays Bark once in a while, so here's a version of that in case your interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfQlDF1n ... er&list=UL

I'll be up playing/surfing for a bit, so you can't post one of the man youtube links you have available. I'm always eager to pick up a few tips.

[Solos]

I just realized something... man I'm slow... 512 area code (Austing Tx.)? Mess with the "Rose"... Talking smack about Randy Chambers? Polkadots = RomeoRose.