why didn't RANDY DIDN'T GO "FLOYD" ON THE PDV???

[Tito]

i agree blues!!!

[Solos]

when i referred to the "pulling up" on a fender type trem i meant pulling up 1/2-1 whole step like the reverse divebomb. it wasn't possible before the floating trem then vai went on to recess the body under the trem.

i misspoke about the locking nut-it was the fine tuners i meant & yeah,eddie had the 1st floyd from the garage.
there's an old guitar world issue w/ an interview w/ floyd & eddie(fron an old NAMM show) about the invention of the FR trem.

i'm just saying what the man told me.
there's also an interview w/ randy or grover jackson that said the black LTD.was a hartail because Randy was trying to get away from using the trem. we'll never know.
i think a trem was a novelty for Randy as he surely didn't have to rely on one w/ all his knowledge.

Well he certainly didn't have to rely on a trem as a crutch, but trem dips, dives, and squeals were the new and "hip" thing to do at that time, along with tapping and hitting natural harmonics. I'm sure he would've at least had a locking trem on one of his guitars. Randy used his bar alot with Ozzy, even if for small vibratos and dips.

[thepolkadots]

i disagree, in my opinion randy rarely used his bar with ozzy. he played most of the set with the les paul, which dosen't even have a bar. i play all of his songs from tribute note for note, and i don't touch the bar very often. you can look at the sheet music for tribute and see he hardly touched it. unless you are referring to the live boots, i haven't paid enough attention to notice if he's using the bar more in them or not.

[thepolkadots]

i thiink evh used it far more.

[Tito]

i think so too

[Axeman1956]

Only time I seen Randy kill with the bar is on Suicide Solution After Hours...

[thepolkadots]

yeah that suicide solution does seem to be the one where randy used it the most. that's the cool thing about randy is that he didn't over use effects or techniques, he only used what he felt the song called for, he didn't do things just to be doing them or to be flashy & over the top like other players.

i also like eddie van halen & steve vai, but they were kinda over the top with the whammy bar & finger tapping, whereas Randy was very minimal when it came to using those types of things. Their music dosen't strike me anywhere as near as powerful as Randys, I like what evh did with DLR, and I like steve vais passion & warfare cd. It seemed like those moments were their peaks. And even then some of their stuff moved me more than other of their songs.

But the difference is it seems that EVERY note Randy hits really moves me.

I can listen to the Tribute CD over & over and never tire of it, every day.

Where other peoples CDs I get tired of hearing and get bored with, and will go back to a few months and listen to again, but Randy, I can listen to his stuff daily.

Randy made every note mean something.

He had taste.

[Tito]

i feel the same

[Axeman1956]

+30 UR XP!

[The One]

In regards to using a standard 6 screw Fender tremolo. I used to set up my Strat so I could raise the pitch a whole tone. This involves setting your spring tension a bit looser and having the tremolo base plate rest a bit of an angle. Once you commit the guitar to this type of setup a key thing to do is re-intonate the guitar to compensate for the new (resting) position of the tremolo.
Some key to keeping it in tune would be slightly widen the grooves in the nut. A little drop of oil or graphite powder in each slot. I also found using NO LESS than 3 winds on the tuning post helped to keep even tension on the tuning peg.
Nowadays I've upgraded my Strat with a Fender mini frictionless roller nut and Sperzel locking tuners. I give it hell and it keeps great tuning.
What I do if it goes out mid song, If the string goes flat, I'll grab a note or an open harmonic on that string and give the bar a spank. If the string has gone sharp, I grab a note and give it a fast bend and give the bar a quick little tug upward. People can never tell that you were out of tune if you have a good ear, detect and react fast to it...

[Solos]

i disagree, in my opinion randy rarely used his bar with ozzy. he played most of the set with the les paul, which dosen't even have a bar. i play all of his songs from tribute note for note, and i don't touch the bar very often. you can look at the sheet music for tribute and see he hardly touched it. unless you are referring to the live boots, i haven't paid enough attention to notice if he's using the bar more in them or not.

Well, lets see... Randy used the bar on the following studio recordings with Ozzy...

I Don't Know
Crazy Train
Suicide Solution
Steal Away
Revelation Mother Earth
Mr. Crowley
Over the Mountain
Flying High Again
You Can't Kill Rock n Roll
SATO
Believer

That's 11 songs out of 18 that he recorded with Ozzy, and there could a be a few more. Those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head. As far as live playing is concerned, he did trem dive effects by bending his neck on his Les Paul when he played that guitar. Why? I guess we'll never know... it could've been due to the tuning stability of his guitars as much as it could've been for the "show" aspect of it.

There are trem effects all over Tribute (probably on every song), whether it was done by bending the neck or by using the bar on his guitar. If you're missing that, I guess you're not playing things note for note...

[thepolkadots]

dude, like look at the sheet music for the tribute cd and tell me how many times did randy use the trem bar in each of those songs. each of those songs have hundreds of notes, randy only used the trem bar on very few notes in each of those songs, I'm not talking about the studio cds, I really don't like the studio cds, i only really like the tribute cd.

here let me break it down for you, i've got the note for note sheet music for the tribute cd right here, i will scan through each page and point out to you each time randy uses the bar.


1. i don't know - bends the neck for 1 note in fill #4. Fill #15 bends neck for 1 note. he also bends the string behind the nut while doing a trill, by the way I don't even count bending the neck or bending the string behind the nut as the same as using the bar, and also he's usually only bending the note a half step when he does this which is hardly anything.

so 2 neck bends & one behind the nut bend in this whole song, 3 notes total out of how many notes played in this song, 400, 600, 1000????????? He made such minimal use of the bending of the bar in this recording of the song it's hardly worth pointing out, but I have proved to you, I am right & you are wrong.

By the way I play things note for note according to the Tribute CD, not the studio CDs.

2. Crazy Train - in the intro he bends the 5th string A a half step by bending the neck, BIG DEAL. Then he bends that same not again during the outro. These are the only two times anywhere in the recording of this song on tribute he did anything remotley similar to usiny a trem bar!

3. Believer, in the intro he does two small dips with the bar 1/2 step where he pulls up & lets it back down, a measure or so later he does a trill and does a small dive and brings it back up as he does a trill. Towards the end of the 1st verse he hits the open harmonic on the 5th fret and dips the bar 3 times. before he comes into the chorus he dips it one small half step. he does 3 small consecutive dips in the middle of the solo in a triplet rhythm and a dive bomb at the end of the solo.

Big whoopin deal, 7 notes where the bar was applied, in a subtle way, and how many notes in this song were played without the aid of the trem bar? You coulda just played this song without the trem use and only the most hardcore randy fan would have noticed the difference.

4. Mr Crowley - 1/2 step dip at end of 1st verse. He uses the trem on ONE note in the whole solo, BUT, same sound could have been made without trem, as it was just vibrato you can do with your finger on that note.

Again, hundreds if not a couple thousand notes in that song, and he only made ONE note go flat a half step in pitch with the bar? may as well say the bar wasn't even used in that song. oh yeah during the finale of it he pressed the bar down another half step for a note, haha, big whoop!

5. Flying High Again - No trem bar used at all

6. Revelation Mother Earth - No trem bar used here, incidentally he sure did alot of pick slides/scrapes though haha

7. steal away the night - He bends ONE note during the solo and applies vibrato with the bar, but this same vibrato can be gotten with just the finger, no need for the bar to do this.

8. Suicide Solution - dips bar on a harmonic at intro, and again 1 time in verse, 1/2/ step dip after hell on this earth on E and again on harmonic. on i know people he hits A chord and does series of 1/2 dips to rhythm. dips bar on A, dips bar on trill before 4th verse.
dips harmonic again after word tomorrow. does dips and pulls on A chord again, then dips on A note 5th string. dips on a trill then does a series of small dips ob two open harmonics. one more small dip before solo ends. towards end of spotlite solo does small dive on open A string then dips on open harmonic before the crescendo, releases bar to original pitch for the final 3 notes of spotlight solo. does 4 half step dips during G chord at end of song.

So see even on this song where he went "wild and crazy on the whammy bar" he was really hardly using it. People like Eddie Van Halen & Steve Vai, alot of their music relies very, very heavily upon the use of the bar, some of their songs and solos would really suffer if you tried to play them without the bar, because the notes they use the bar on is a very high percentage/ratio, but Randy used it so sparingly it really don't make much of a difference if you use the bar or not when you play even his Suicide Solution song, as he used it very little, and even when he did use it he wasn't doing anything very dramatic with it.

9. Iron Man - no bar use.

10. Children of the Grave - slight vibrato on 1 chord, which could be done with hand, also same thing for ONE note in solo, coulda been done regular way with finger at 19th fret. then at the end he does a similar vibrato on b note 1st string, could have been done by finger.

11. Paranoid, 2 VERY SUBTLE bends of the neck.

12. goodbye to Romance - No Trem bar.

13 No Bone Movies - No Trem Bar

14. Dee - of course, no trem bar

So there you have it. I just looked through every measure. You can basically count on your fingers all the times Randy used the trem bar on the entire Tribute CD!

Dude, you tried to call me out as if I don't know what I'm talking about, you just ate your words man.

Perhaps your ears can't tell when someone is doing virbrato & slides by hand or when they are using a actual bar, Randy hardly touched the damn bar.

End of story.



5.

[sik_kreations]

epic pwn

[Stiltzkin]

while we're on the subject of bending up ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qX-r3_hn4U&feature=fvst

around 0:27 in

[blues_n_cues]

crazy train- no bar-watch the vids. there's no bar on that les paul.

otm- he did use the bar on over the mountain.

just throwing those in.