The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:55 pm

Who's not showing respect? i was under the impression this was a conversation of sorts. I haven't seen any disrespect. I believe in Christ but the Bible is open to a vast amount of interpretation if anything that is what scholars have shown above all else.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:48 am

Oh I agree it is definately a conversation where all veiw points are welcome, and you are very entitled to your interpetation as is everyone else. I read your statements about certain things as disrespectful, if I am reading them wrong it's my bad and I apologize.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:21 am

No worries tedeeoo I mean no disrespect at all. It's hard to inflect over the internet.

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:26 pm

I had a thought the other day and I'll try to convey what I got out of it and try not to lose you either, lol. The first law of physics has been shown to be true to the utmost degree. That law is the conservation of energy. Now apply this idea to the idea of god and it seems things begin to violate it. Like creating something from nothing completely uproots the first laws of physics and thermodynamics. It seems to me to be ludicrous that a being would create this universe with specific physical laws by an act that perversely disobeys those laws. At the very start of it all none the less.. To think this is absurd.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:34 pm

McLowery wrote:To think this is absurd.

Unless you accept that we humans have finite[/i[ wisdom and the Creator has infinite wisdom.

Some things are not important for us to understand in order to live the life we have been given. Many humans love to speculate and create reasons why God doesn't exist, it will continue until the end of time. The thing is, faith is required to follow God. He asks that you believe from your heart, not your brain.

God said it, I believe it. Jesus was born, was crucified and overcame death. Call me a simpleton, but that is enough for me.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:15 pm

God said it, I believe it. Jesus was born, was crucified and overcame death. Call me a simpleton, but that is enough for me.[/quote]

Me too.

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:31 pm

I think science and God are getting closer and closer. To many, logic hasn't all the answers yet ,regarding God's existence, but one day it will in my opinion.
The question I think of importance is, will the men/women of this logical disposition recognise God when he/she reveals himself though logic. Or, will they still find another reason for what they have seen not to be bonafide, ie mass hallucination etc.

They may even devise tests by their own limited human logic

"if that was God who spoke to every one last Tuesday at 1723 pm, then by our calculations God will reveal himself again at the same time in 11 days"

...the moment things don't go their 'logical way' they will disregard their experience and run back to the confines of science.

To me faith is acquiring as much logic as possible and then looking at where it points. The faith part is like Indiana Jones In The Last Crucade where all the information takes him to a supposed invisible bridge. That was the logic part. The faith he employs is crossing a bridge that doesn't appear to be there.

Matt

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:46 pm

If we are to ask from our hearts and not our brains, why is humankind so inquisitive of it's origins, surroundings and place in the universe. All of these requiring logic and science to explain. Man spent a few thousand years blindly believing the earth was flat, everything went around the earth and earth was the center of the universe. At what benefit? The questions man has sought the answers to mostly seem to challenge a supernatural answer. The wide acceptance of scientific explanation is what has allowed the human race to expand in one century much farther and greater than he had the previous five thousand years of written existence. Cultures that tend to lag behind modern society are the cultures that are based in religion for their government.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:19 am

As someone who has spent the better part of my life as both a Christian and a scientist, I've never really understood why some people want to seperate the two so bad. God never said not to question things, in fact just the opposite, Jesus questioned both religion and science and everything else that was accepted at that time. Having said that, I know not everyone here is Christian so don't take this as a bashing of non-believers. My point is, that in my expierence as both a Christian and a scientist, the two seem to confirm each other, that's just my opinion on it. I would also ask the question, could it not be possible that the reason we can accept scientific explanation for many things now is because it was by the design of God to do so. I would also ask the question of just what cultures are so much more advanced because of their lack of religion, in most of my research on different cultures (which I greatly enjoy), they all seem to have a religion of some kind somewhere, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu or even Communism or Capitolism. Again, I don't mean to step on toes, everyone has a right to their beliefs, these are just some of mine.

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:51 am

To be a christian and a scientist must be interesting. Being a scientist you should know that a man has not the corporal vessel to contain the energy that created the universe (god) nor could that energy cocoon itself within the confines of the human body. But as a christian you must believe these things to accept Jesus as god and man.

To verbally express what "god" wants from humanity is arrogance of the first order. If the universe was created by design, any person expressing their views and words as to be equal in some way to that design shows arrogance without shame. We'd be so sub-par to this that we wouldn't even be compared as earthworms in it's processes. Humanity is still a very primitive and aggressive species. Our territorial aggression has landed us on the brink of extinction. Without a paradigm shift in the conscience of our race, we are doomed to destroy ourselves. Add to this the superstitious mindset that certain few of our race are in tune with "god" and can deliver it's message to the rest of us and it gets even bleaker.

To think that humanity today is mostly governed by science when it comes to certain explorations in some way being part of gods design doesnt hold. Many a brave man gave their life to some of the most grueling executions thought of for their belief in science over dogma. Suppression of scientific ideas and truths by the church has been one of the most detramental aspects of human existence ever.

I said cultures whose governments are based on religious dogma are lagging in todays world. Example the Taliban. Society under the Taliban could be compared to societies in the old testament. Like right out of the stone age.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:33 am

To be a Christian and scientist is just what I am, interesting or not. To be a Christian all I have to do is believe that Jesus is who He said He was, The Son of God, and that He died for my sins. It has nothing to do with the creation of the universe, if you read the New Testament then you know how salvation works.But, what it takes to be a Christian was not the point of my reply, the point of it was God and science can and do exist together,I do not assume in any fashion to know the mind of God, but I do have a right to my opinion, and my opinion is no more arrogant than someone who trys to explain God out of existence by using scientific method or anything else, I have been a scientist for 19 years now and have never had a conflict between what I see in the lab and what I feel in my heart. A large part of the problem with our world is that some cultures are looked at as "less than" others irregardless of the basis, we should try to look at everyone as equal . As I said, I do not mean to step on anyone's toes as I know people have really strong opinions on this subject, and everyone is entitled to, it's just my view on it, take it as that and nothing more.

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:53 am

Tedeeoo, you will have to excuse some of my takes on Christianity for they are the Catholic version. I know there are many differances from Catholic to any given denomination. In catholicism Jesus IS god and vice versa. I get antsy whenever I come upon something that mentions what or how god wants us to conform to or act like, sorry.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 am

No problem man. Off this topic I noticed on your Soundclick page that you are playing a Peavey V-type, the song Burbank is excellent by the way. I have 4 Vandenberg customs, one of Adrian's personal signature models (hey, I know everyone at Peavey) as well as one of the first "Puzzle" prototypes. I love those guitars, they may have Adrian's signature on them but they were made for me, lol!!!! One of my best friends is the guy who designed the guitar with Adrian, he also did EVH'S Wolfgangs (I have one of Ed's that got sent back to the factory). We should talk alot cause I love those guitars and I think my last name should have been Peavey, lol!!!

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:57 am

tedeeoo wrote:No problem man. Off this topic I noticed on your Soundclick page that you are playing a Peavey V-type, the song Burbank is excellent by the way. I have 4 Vandenberg customs, one of Adrian's personal signature models (hey, I know everyone at Peavey) as well as one of the first "Puzzle" prototypes. I love those guitars, they may have Adrian's signature on them but they were made for me, lol!!!! One of my best friends is the guy who designed the guitar with Adrian, he also did EVH'S Wolfgangs (I have one of Ed's that got sent back to the factory). We should talk alot cause I love those guitars and I think my last name should have been Peavey, lol!!!

The first Vandenberg I ever played was the puzzle piece one and I instantly needed one! lol The only thing that stopped me from getting it was they only made neck-thru's with trem systems back then. When I saw Peavey had designed a string-thru neck-thru with the V-type I hunted one down. Great guitar. Never played a Wolfgang yet. I've heard they're awesome. Now that Ibanez is doing the Jem with straight bridge, I have a new axe on my wish list.. lol Thanks for the kind words about Burbank, truly appreciated man.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:58 pm

The only hard tail original Vandenberg in existence resides in my house, there is a story behind it (as well as all of my Vandy's), I'll pm you about it since I don't want to high-jack this thread. The Wolfgang's are great guitars, just not for me (small hands).