An Observation

[RR-ElectricAngel]

It's interesting that "shaping" has become an important observation because I always thought Randy projected the ideal image of what a guitar hero should be. I always took Randy as a serious musician with something important to express. Eddie puts a lot of "flair" into his playing. It's kinda goofy and fun to play his stuff. Randy's playing is very intense. I can't smile when I play Randy's solos because every phrase is so well executed. If you make a mistake on one of Eddie's solos it doesn't destroy the solo. It only adds color to it. Mess up one of Randy's solos and it is sacreligious. They were sculpted so masterfully that no one dares to joke around with them. Eddie's solos have a lot of common sense to them. Randy's solos are very unusual. You would never think of constructing a solo the way he did. Think of it this way, Eddie would draw you a map on a napkin. You know roughly where you are going to go. Randy would give you a Google map. Every detail would be figured out. He probably would even number all of the trees for you. You could never get lost with his map.

[Paul Wolfe]

Nice analogy, I like it.

[Trigger]

Nice analogy, I like it.

I also thinks that this demonstrates what I have been saying about Randy for a while now.
Randal William Rhoads is a composer of music and as such should be viewed alongside composers not just guitarists.

Randy should should in time have an academic overview

[Paul Wolfe]

I still wonder about the Blizzard and Diary sessions and how much Bob and Lee helped with arranging the pieces.

I may have mentioned this before, but I have a DVD of the making of Metallica's 'black album' and in it Kirk demonstrates his original vision of Enter Sandman, then Lars explains his input that changed it into what we heard on the final product. Kirk had the vision and created the parts, Lars rearranged them and came up with an excellent song. I wonder if this took place with Bob, Lee, Randy and Ozzy? Randy was brilliant, but how much help did he have in his 'quantum leap'?

[Trigger]

I still wonder about the Blizzard and Diary sessions and how much Bob and Lee helped with arranging the pieces.

Ask lee about this because he has agreed for the first time to answer questions from an RR fan forum, we are lucky enough to be his choice so I am sure he can shed more light on those sessions

[oth]

So if I point out your faults, Ritchie, and talk negative about you, would that be bashing? Yes, sir, it would. Turning your venom at me is bashing as well.

Whatever Paul .. i really honestly don't give a fuck what you have to say any longer . You come across as an insecure argumentative little man . now do ME a favor and fuck the hell off !!!!!!

dude ,
did u ever see evh back in the day with dlr??????
Eddie not only played awesome live but his athletics and antics were kick ass.Ive never seen another guitarist or frontman besides the master Roth,show so much energy.
And dude if he could do that drunk all the more power to him.But what diff does it make,why u bash?drinking retards your ability not enhance it.

Youre basically talking out of your ass since you werent even spermatoza in the early 80s.

[JAY]

Awesome clip!

[Sarab]

So if I point out your faults, Ritchie, and talk negative about you, would that be bashing? Yes, sir, it would. Turning your venom at me is bashing as well.

Whatever Paul .. i really honestly don't give a fuck what you have to say any longer . You come across as an insecure argumentative little man . now do ME a favor and fuck the hell off !!!!!!

dude ,
did u ever see evh back in the day with dlr??????
Eddie not only played awesome live but his athletics and antics were kick ass.Ive never seen another guitarist or frontman besides the master Roth,show so much energy.
And dude if he could do that drunk all the more power to him.But what diff does it make,why u bash?drinking retards your ability not enhance it.

Youre basically talking out of your ass since you werent even spermatoza in the early 80s.

ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT.
IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH ANOTHER MEMBER, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PM THAT PERSON! IF NOT, THEN GET OVER IT ALREADY.

YOU PEOPLE ARE THE REASON WHY I AM SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING LEAVING THIS AND ALL RANDY FORUMS

[Trigger]

I might be wrong Gina but the fight that you commented on which was highlighted by oth was sorted a while ago, so I think the heat was out of this long before it was re-heated again.

[rice_pudding]

It's interesting that "shaping" has become an important observation because I always thought Randy projected the ideal image of what a guitar hero should be. I always took Randy as a serious musician with something important to express. Eddie puts a lot of "flair" into his playing. It's kinda goofy and fun to play his stuff. Randy's playing is very intense. I can't smile when I play Randy's solos because every phrase is so well executed. If you make a mistake on one of Eddie's solos it doesn't destroy the solo. It only adds color to it. Mess up one of Randy's solos and it is sacreligious. They were sculpted so masterfully that no one dares to joke around with them. Eddie's solos have a lot of common sense to them. Randy's solos are very unusual. You would never think of constructing a solo the way he did. Think of it this way, Eddie would draw you a map on a napkin. You know roughly where you are going to go. Randy would give you a Google map. Every detail would be figured out. He probably would even number all of the trees for you. You could never get lost with his map.

Good analogy, to compliment your point their musical background would be quite crucial.

Randy's classical influence is probbably the key difference here, as you put it accuracy is key for a Rhoads solo, much like the performance of 99% of classical music.

The harmony/backing track of such for his solos are important. For most rock/blues solos you can play almost anything in just one key and it'll work. Randy's stuff has modulations and more complex chords, if you stick to the same scale your screwed. If randy had improvised rather than play the same solo's he would have had to concentrate even more.

To sum up Randy dotted the i's and crossed the t's, anyway when was the last time anyone in an orchestra got up and started groovin.

Rob

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Brilliant points Rob and Electric Angel

In regards to drinking and playing music; In genres such as jazz, blues and rock, they are often associated with alcohol, perhaps because of the rebellious nature of these styles. The nature of the aforementioned music is about letting go, and freeing your musical inhabitions...(yes this parallels peoples desire with drinking too in a social setting)
Because of the improvisatory nature of these styles, using drink in performance, doesn't actually hinder the performance, but in many case lend itself to the style!

On the other hand (the above covers EVH) playing a 'Classical' (I use the term loosely) instrument is so specific, and disciplined in it''s subtlety, that any drink can only hinder a performance. ie concentration is needed 100 percent.

Randy's music is similar to Classical music in this respect. But more than that, his music requires classical music performance practice to play convincingly too. Yes there are players, we have come to call Classically influenced artists, such as Yngwie Malmsteen who throw themselves around the stage and 'let go', but in the true sense of being a Classical performer Randy fits the description more accurately.

His music with Ozzy in my opnion, is too detailed and premeditated not to be really concentrated in a performance.

Matt

[whoopiecat]

Paul,
In response to your original question, I'll say this:
The After Hours performance was in a small, well lit television studio, with a couple/few cameras right there.
The Largo show was a hockey arena, full on light show, the cameras probably more obscured from the band's view by crowd, spotlights in their faces, etc.
Randy knew very well he was being filmed, whereas Eddie may have been oblivious...not sure if the band knew any cameras were rolling?
Does anyone here know just who made up the audience for the AH taping? I would guess road crew, maybe radio or label people...contest winners?
By '82 VH were a very tight band, Ed had his tecnique down pretty well by now. Randy had changed his writing/playing style from the poppier days of QR, plus a new rythym section would change the band dynamics.
Two very different situations...one more relaxed in front of adoring fans, the other, more of a showcase, almost introducing the band to the US for the first time.
One way I could equate it is this:
If you've ever seen Aerosmith's 'The Making of Pump' video, there's a segment of Steven Tyler's interview where he said Brad Whiford's style was more of a schooled thing, whereas Joe Perry's style came from teen angst and want of a girlfriend.
The thing that puts it over the top for me with Randy is that he has two albums and that is it. 19 original songs, two are obscure b-sides.
I don't count Tribute, as it repeats material from the above, and I don't count the first two QR albums, because they were never officially released
outside of Japan.
Would have been curious to hear what Max Norman or Ted Templeman could have done with the QR sound....

T.

[Paul Wolfe]

Good points T, I hadn't thought of it like that.