The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

frankus · Post by **frankus** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:41 am

matt

say the story is just a regurgitated one, it had to start somewhere right? even if the bibles stories are just lifted from many other similar legends maybe there is a first legend that started it all...like an original christ they have all been copying since. food for thought...

frank

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:36 pm

Ritchie wrote:
So why do folks need a "god" ?

I believe there is a need to reconcile our surroundings. I believe everyone has this need to some extent. So much can not be explained so we look to a higher source to reconcile those things - God for some, science for others.

Ritchie · Post by **Ritchie** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:52 pm

I can understand that , and I think ones beliefs be whatever they are , are very personal things no ? , I find it offensive that fundamentalist christian groups attempt to tell us that ' their beliefs ' are the right way ? for all intents and purposes "my god " could be my Gibson Explorer .. and that's what gives me strength and pulls me through the tough times or whatever , but if i went around telling people to come and pray to my Gibson Explorer would'nt folks think I was crazy ? Hmmmmmmm

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:32 pm

Ritchie wrote:I can understand that , and I think ones beliefs be whatever they are , are very personal things no ? , I find it offensive that fundamentalist christian groups attempt to tell us that ' their beliefs ' are the right way ? for all intents and purposes "my god " could be my Gibson Explorer .. and that's what gives me strength and pulls me through the tough times or whatever , but if i went around telling people to come and pray to my Gibson Explorer would'nt folks think I was crazy ? Hmmmmmmm

I find it offensive when 'fundamentalist Christian' groups are singled out. Muslims kill people who don't believe as they do. The Jews ain't to nice to non-believers either. And all three major religions sprouted form the same family - that of Abraham. So hate 'em all equally rather than pointing fingers at one group. They all say that their way is the only way.

As for your guitar being your 'god'... that's sad, to me. God is the creator of the universe and everything in it. Without God you'd not have the tree to build the guitar from.

You all can debate this until the cows come home, but, ultimately, whether any of you like it or not, there is one God, he came to earth in the form of Jesus Christ, and anyone who refuses to believe in Him will be condemned to hell.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.

Ritchie · Post by **Ritchie** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:44 pm

NO Paul that is your truth ! I am respecting of it being your truth and i am not going to critisize you for what you believe .

Ritchie · Post by **Ritchie** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:50 pm

As for my guitar being "my god " i was using it as an example . I don't have a god so it looks like i am going to hell ..

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:31 am

Ritchie wrote:NO Paul that is your truth ! I am respecting of it being your truth and i am not going to critisize you for what you believe .

And as far as I and millions of Christians AND God Himself is concerned, it is the truth.

I appreciate your willingness to not criticize my beliefs, really, I do. The thing is, I have avoided this 'discussion' because i don't believe there is any 'discussion' to God. I believe there are those who believe in Christ and those who refuse to believe, so they find something else to believe in - Mohammed, science, whatever - because Christ presents rules and some people fear rules, so they rebel and avoid.

I really don't understand anyone who reads the Bible and comes up with anything but faith.

As for your guitar, I realize you weer simply making a point, as was I.

In the end each will choose to believe what he will. God gave each of us the freedom to choose, so exercise that right and choose what you will. Just don't bitch about the consequences.

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:05 am

Does God give us the right to choose? What about the pre-destination argument?

Just thought I'd throw that in the pot!

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:27 am

Paul Wolfe wrote: there are those who believe in Christ and those who refuse to believe, so they find something else to believe in - Mohammed, science, whatever - because Christ presents rules and some people fear rules, so they rebel and avoid.

Paul, in the quote above if you swap Christ for Mohammed or Krishna, or a few thousands of years ago zeus etc , you have a quote that could fit any of those mentioned. But I know you acknowledge that to a point.

This clip explains what what I think about the need to question.

The clip is called Open minded Christian Caller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HABejFM7 ... re=related

In my opinion the point of this discussion was, and is, to lay out as much information as possible, so people can read as many 'fors' and 'againsts' as possible too, as well as talk about what makes this life so amazing

...like Nicole's post a few posts above about another earth sized planet!

I was talking to a fellow believer in God recently and he was expressing his anger and disdain for Dawkins' best selling book The God Dellusion.
I said I didn't understand his shying away! If he can read it, and answer some of the difficult questions the book poses, then surely he is better equiped to answer people's difficult questions about his own views.

LOL, he is now reading it...that sold it to him!

Matt

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Ritchie wrote:I can understand that , and I think ones beliefs be whatever they are , are very personal things no ? , I find it offensive that fundamentalist christian groups attempt to tell us that ' their beliefs ' are the right way ? for all intents and purposes "my god " could be my Gibson Explorer .. and that's what gives me strength and pulls me through the tough times or whatever , but if i went around telling people to come and pray to my Gibson Explorer would'nt folks think I was crazy ? Hmmmmmmm

Good point. Being a Christian myself I find that the problem with Christianity is Christians. I see in myself hypocritical attitudes and often a poor example of what a Christian man should be. I totally see why non-Christians are turned off many times.

The only true witness is for someone to see Christ in your actions and daily walk. Words are cheap and easy.

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:34 pm

I actually think that the whole "hypocrite!" argument is a little weak. EVERYONE is a hypocrite, Christian or not. The whole "the church is full of hypocrites" thing is silly cause the whole world is full of hypocrites. No one is a perfect person. A non Christian criticizing a Christian for not acting Christian all the time (ie "perfect") is just as bad as a Christian criticizing a non Christian for not acting perfect. Christianity, to me, is not about claiming to be perfect; it is actually the opposite. It is to admit that you fail in the eyes of God. When a non church goer is SO DISGUSTED because they overhear a Christian gossiping, why are they so disgusted in the first place? Have they never gossiped in their whole life? Big deal, you know. Everyone comes up short.

I know that there are many Christians who don't see the Christian label the same as me (as an admission that you are less than perfect and unworthy of God). They see it as a platform to look down upon people. Well, there's nothing you can do about that. Sometimes just ignoring them and knowing that not all Christians feel that way about others will have to do for the time being.

And I agree Dan, words are cheap and definitely easy.

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:42 pm

NicDots wrote:I actually think that the whole "hypocrite!" argument is a little weak. EVERYONE is a hypocrite, Christian or not.

Amen Nicole!

Matt

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:35 pm

xx

Matt

JustTakeAPebble · Post by **JustTakeAPebble** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:09 am

Hey guys,

You may or may not get a kick out of this, but it brought a smile to the family

My recently deceased grandfather heart stopped 4 times during his suffering with pantriatic cancer, and when he woke up from being ressucitated from the 3rd time, he said.

"I didn't see a man wearing a crown"

My grandfather, was always lighthearted even when it came to death and it made me think, that why worry over the details of where you go, just as long as you lived a good life, and done good for fellow man then whatever happends, whether you go to heaven or just stay in the ground, you leave behind something that people will remember you by and your soul has reached it's personal heaven.

Sorry if I sound like I'm talking bullshit here, but hey, thanks for reading if you read this.

Simon

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:57 am

frankus wrote:matt

say the story is just a regurgitated one, it had to start somewhere right? even if the bibles stories are just lifted from many other similar legends maybe there is a first legend that started it all...like an original christ they have all been copying since. food for thought...

frank

Yes that is an interesting point! And one too that can send your head into a state of being overwhelmed. This sums it up!! ha ha

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

This is why I have decided to concentrate, not on the literal Jesus, but what I consider to be the real message of Jesus which I think is compassion and love. It also fits into my Buddhism ideology.
I have been too concerned with the actuality of events in the New Testament and completely over looked the meaning which is way more important!

In short I have decided to keep my active mind concentrating on history and customs of the time of Jesus walked, but walk away, peacefully, from the stuff I can never prove or know.

Matt

ps Simon that gave me and Suzie a huge chuckle. What a lovely and strong man drawing humour from such a serious situation.