Muslims discovered America before Columbus?

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

I am waiting to watch Shameless and become hooked on a fantastic programme about the changing world. Anyway it had a great section on Columbus and his using of the winds, to accidentally find America.

Anyway I am reading up on it and found this!
http://www.themodernreligion.com/ht/bef ... umbus.html

Ian, you know a lot about Arabic culture, Craig, Nicole you have great mixes of culture's in your family; had you heard this?

thoughts?

Matt

[Paul Wolfe]

Matt, I don't know about Muslims (although Islam is a religion and not a race, so I hate to attribute things to a groups religion), but the Vikings were here many times prior to Columbus from what I've read. I tried reading your link and found it difficult. It came across as propaganda rather than history. It is always interesting to read other points of view, but I hate it when anyone feels the need to condemn someone else in an effort to make themselves look good.

[Alex]

xx123456

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Hi Paul

I read it too with a pinch of salt, but I do think things have been remembered very divisively in history.

Alex those Vikings were bloody frightening!

Matt

[Trigger]

Well this idea makes pefect sense to me because it is now oknow that the Vikings sailed to the Middle East and traded with the Arabs. Though the Arabs are tribal and always have been the Arabs tribes were loosely united and shared information and learning.
The Arab world 1000 years ago streched from Turkey all the way past Palestine and Lebanon (The levant) to Egyypt, then all of North Africa and Spain and Portugal, now if you also consider that for much of recent history (up to the 1800's) even the Balcans next to Italy were part of the Muslim Ottomon Empire, so only France and Italy remained un-Islamic and not part of a shifting Islamic/Arab Empire.

These things considered, with it being well known that Spain was Arab they the Muslims and their freinds the Jews in Spain were very learned and set about recording all things that were known, they translated the works of the Greeks and much of the Bible is from Arabi translation made in Spain. All knowlege filtered into Spain and can see that the knowlege given by the Vikings is likely to have reached Spain so it is possible that Arabs ventured to the Americas because from Arab Spain you would only have to sail across the Atlantic, also baring in mind that the Arabs inherited the ruins of the Roman Empire, Roman artifacs have been found in the sea off the coast of Central America. This being the case I am sure the Arabs having read and translated Roman texts they would have known of the lands across the Atlantic.

I remember reading a few years ago of a Chinese sailor who was Muslim and comanded a fleet that is said to have sailed across the Atlantic and landed andexplored a huge landmass, It is assumed that this was the West coast of North America.

Also so we do know that after the Vikings discovered America departed and decided not to tell anybody!
Before Columus the tudors sailed across the Atlantic landed on the East Coast of the USA but left straight away when they heard noises coming from native Americans who were said to be shouting at them from the undergrowth.

I think it is very possible that Islamic peoples set foot on the Americas either from China or Arabs though, for me, spain would be the most likely because it was such a centre of learning in the arab world.

[Zakk Daniels]

the Vikings were here many times prior to Columbus from what I've read.

Indeed. They were there and even settled ~500 years before Columbus. They called it Vinland. (Possibly wineland, translated.) They eventually left, but can you imagine what things would have been like if they had stayed? Perhaps people would speak variant of Swedish rather than English, and maybe the native Americans would have been wiped out completely due to how brutal the Vikings were.

VIKINGS RULE!!!!!!!!!

[Trigger]

the Vikings were here many times prior to Columbus from what I've read.

Indeed. They were there and even settled ~500 years before Columbus. They called it Vinland. (Possibly wineland, translated.) They eventually left, but can you imagine what things would have been like if they had stayed? Perhaps people would speak variant of Swedish rather than English, and maybe the native Americans would have been wiped out completely due to how brutal the Vikings were.

VIKINGS RULE!!!!!!!!!

So you are Lebanese which makes your background Arab! in Matts thread it has an underlying thread which is that Arabs made an amazing journey which defies what we understand as the recieved wisdom of world history?
But you would rather shout VICKINGS RULE RULE!?!?!?!

is this a betrayal of your roots all about loving a certain Viking lookalike who played in BLS and Ozzy?

[Zakk Daniels]

Indeed. They were there and even settled ~500 years before Columbus. They called it Vinland. (Possibly wineland, translated.) They eventually left, but can you imagine what things would have been like if they had stayed? Perhaps people would speak variant of Swedish rather than English, and maybe the native Americans would have been wiped out completely due to how brutal the Vikings were.

VIKINGS RULE!!!!!!!!!

So you are Lebanese which makes your background Arab! in Matts thread it has an underlying thread which is that Arabs made an amazing journey which defies what we understand as the recieved wisdom of world history?
But you would rather shout VICKINGS RULE RULE!?!?!?!

is this a betrayal of your roots all about loving a certain Viking lookalike who played in BLS and Ozzy?

LOL!!!!! That is correct Sir!!!! I am a Catholic Arab though, a much different breed of Arab then the Muslim Arab. Besides, Zakk Wylde Kicks Ass!!!! LOL

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

A Randy Rhoads loving, beer drinking, Arabic, Catholic, bad languaged heart of gold maniac, Viking gun totting Jesus loving American!

we love you Craig! LOL

Matt

[Paul Wolfe]

I read it too with a pinch of salt, but I do think things have been remembered very divisively in history.

Very true, history is, unfortunately, very subjective they way it is presented to the masses. I don't like any historical account that makes one side better than another.

[Trigger]

I read it too with a pinch of salt, but I do think things have been remembered very divisively in history.

Very true, history is, unfortunately, very subjective they way it is presented to the masses. I don't like any historical account that makes one side better than another.

The problem is history is always based of defeats in battle and it has always been written by the victors, which doesnt always mean that it is true, and in recent years some quiet inacurate Hollywood films have taken history and reinvented their subjects to quiet a concerning degree.

[Zakk Daniels]

A Randy Rhoads loving, beer drinking, Arabic, Catholic, bad languaged heart of gold maniac, Viking gun totting Jesus loving American!

we love you Craig! LOL

Matt

LOL!!!! That is FUCKIN' AWESOME Matthew!!! HA HA HA HA!! Next time you come to New Hampshire in the USA, We need to meet up and hang out!!!

ROCK ON MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zakk Daniels]

A Randy Rhoads loving, beer drinking, Arabic, Catholic, bad languaged heart of gold maniac, Viking gun totting Jesus loving American!

we love you Craig! LOL

Matt

This is so fuckin' funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE it!!!!!!!!!

[NicDots]

I have heard different things about who discovered America. They say Zheng He (who was in fact a Muslim eunuch) of the Mings sailed to America. I have had professors roll their eyes at the claim, calling it "junk history." I have also heard about the Vikings, which were for sure in America in the 10th century. And then of course, Columbus. Never heard about Spanish Muslims coming to America though. I just googlged it and apparently that notion has been circulating for the last 5-6 years now. But the terms America and Americas are different. This link does not specify which was actually discovered. I mean, the area between the tip of South America and the top of Canada is HUGE. From top to bottom, it's the "Americas." But when someone says "America" I think "North America" unless specified as "South America." I'd need to see some more research concerning this before I were to make a judgement on it. As of now though, the Vikings discovered North America. However, does that really matter a whole lot? Yes, it shows the Vikings sailing prowess, but their influence on the continent pales in comparison to the Spanish.

[tedeeoo]

If Native Americans were already here, can anyone legitamately claim to have discovered America? I guess maybe discovered for the outside world but if people were already here when your ship landed somebody discovered it before you did. I guess if you take the "Gene Simmons" approach to it, we ( The Americas) are actually named for the Italian explorer Amerigo Vespucci, even if he didn't "technically" discover it (yes, I know he was here much later than some of the others) and you know what Gene says, "if you got the copyright, it's yours", ( it's just a joke).