Health Insurance Bill

[RR-ElectricAngel]

O.K. This is probably an explosive topic and I'm surprised it hasn't been debated about but here it goes. I do like the idea of providing health care for everyone (here in the U.S. of course) but I am a little weary of making it mandatory. If I can barely pay my income taxes as it is I sure don't need another law that forces me to give more than I can afford. Is there going to be a floor on this bill? That is, will there be a minimum income amount that will be exempt? If you are in poverty will you have to give away your children to afford health care? My creditors were the worst sort of slime under the Bush administration with almost unlimited intimidation tactics. Only through bankruptcy did I make it out alive. I can now eat more than once a week. Anyhow, Do you believe this bill is for the better good or simply another burden for the American taxpayer? My creditors all got bailed out and raised my rates. Wall street will probably be back to 14,000 pts before 2011. Is that more important than Joe Sixpack? (MySarah Palin reference!)

Then again I see something like this funny PSA announcement and wonder if I'm simply getting in the way of what probably needs to happen on some level of the overall health care system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B98muhuf ... re=popular

[Paul Wolfe]

Canada did it and made it work. In fact, when Canadians were polled and asked who the most important Canadian in history was, they said Tommy Douglas - the man who really introduced socialized health care to Canada.

The reason it will be difficult in this country is because Americans are greedy as hell. The insurance companies, the drug companies, the hospitals, the doctors themselves will all fight this thing because they don't want a limit on what they can charge and they will fight for the right to rape American citizens until they have all the money and the poor are dead. It sucks, but it's true. The debate isn't about what is best for the country, it's about who gets credit and who gets the most benefit (money, power, etc) when all is said and done.

As for Wall Street, that place is a joke. Who gives a crap what the rich are spending money on? Ever notice how the market jumps up and down based on what happens in the news? Panic buying and selling is no indication of what the economy is going to do. How many people watched the market and were surprised when the bottom fell out? There's this thing called an economic cycle - it goes in a circle and at some point the bottom of the circle must be reached - we are there now (or close to it). So in time it will go back up as all cycles do. The only question is how long will it take?

[Trigger]

EA, This subject has been talked about here but it was hijaked by our usual Troll.

We have had free health care in Britain since the late 1940's and it was granted to us with a raft of social care packages to reward us for defeating Nazi Germany and the trauma that the war caused to Britain.
It is amazin gand the aditional tax is well worth it when you know that when you are in danger the treatment you need is waiting, I have watched with sadness as I see groups organised to go to meetings to attack the politicians who are trying to pass this through for you.
All I can say as a person who has benefited greatly from it this year, stay strong because I can see it's tough because it will be worth it once the shouting is over.

[cableguyxx]

I don't think it's as black & white as the evil rich bastards wanting to rape American citizens, Paul. I don't know enough about either of the proposed bills to bitch about it. I've seen a few things that don't sit well though, if in fact, if they are true. First being, in the House version, Union members would be exempt from the tax. If that's true, then how convenient is that? I've also heard that the Senate version would tax them. Another question....they are talking about it being a $750 fine if you do not take the plan. If they can't turn you away at an emergency room, and the tax would be considerable more than $750, why not just pay the fine and go to the emergency room? Inmates, who tax payers already pay for, get free(tax payer supplied) health care. Something is just wrong with that. Another thing is the Illegal immigration issue, and whether they will be payed for. Joe Wilson infamously called Obama a liar on this issue, and Pres. Obama says they will not be covered, buuuuuut, an amendment(or something to that effect) to require showing proof of residency, was shot down by the Democrats. Hmmmmmmmm. Makes me think that even though they will not be "covered", they will still be provided service at taxpayers expense, which in the end IS coverage, is it not? Maybe Joe Wilson wasn't so wrong after all, and Pres. Obama is using side speak to appease people? On to the "less fortunate" Yes, there are some poor by no fault of their own, and that is where government systems should step in and assist, as well as charitable organizations. There are also an ample number(although some would have you believe it is an arbitrary number) of people who live off the backs of others on a daily basis, and make 0 attempt at contributing positively, or are in deep crap because of their own poor choices. Why should these people have free health care? Why should others pay for these loafs? I still think all children should be taken care of, but why these turds? I've had a few friends on Facebook say health care should be a right; I'm neither for this or against this at the moment, but my question to them, and anyone else who feels the same is, OK then, where do you draw the line? What else is a "human right" Dentist care is expensive as hell too! I've paid well over $3000 this year alone on my family's care. Should this be included? Having a warm place to sleep? Having food to eat? Having a job? Transportation? Are not these things all interlinked at some point? At what point is a good thing, too much? No doubt there is some serious tweaking that needs to on, but I do not think you throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Why should someone get a government credit who is below a certain point of income, and not contributing, when a someone who may be above that point of income struggles every month to get by? Add to that, the speed at which the government is wanting to pass this is ludicrous. If they want to completely overhaul the health care system, let's take some time, really get some input, and see what we are getting.

By the way; do you think our government is really after the public's best interest, regardless of party affiliation, or do you think they are after their own agenda?

Since Congress is suddenly so interested in discussing and regulating what other people make, let’s discuss the financial condition of our hardworking, selfless Reps.

Take a guess what percentage of Congress are millionaires…I’ll give you a jumping off point: 1% of the total US population are millionaires.

You probably figured that Congress probably had between 5 or 10 times the amount of millionaires as the rest of the country, that would make sense. But you’d be way wrong.

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, a whopping 44% of Congress men and women are millionaires, that’s a total of 237 of them! So it’s more like 44 times more millionaires.

Here’s a quick rundown of the Fattest of Cats from Politico.com:

CRP says California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa is the richest lawmaker on Capitol Hill, with a net worth estimated at about $251 million. Next in line: Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.), worth about $244.7 million; Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.), worth about $214.5 million; Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), worth about $209.7 million; and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), worth about $208.8 million.

All told, at least seven lawmakers have net worths greater than $100 million, according to the Center’s 2008 figures.

OK, so to sum up, only 1% of Americans are worth a million or more, but almost half of our elected officials are – why, we’re like peas in a pod! Hard to believe there’s such a disconnect between the everyday Americans and their duly-elected representative overclass.

The other thought is, give me some well run US government programs. Ones that aren't ripe with fraud and exploitation, which already nail tax payers. Waste, waste, waste. Social Security, Medicare, Fanny May/Freddie Mac? Do they honestly expect us to believe they will actually save tax money in the long run?

I have a friend in Canada who loves the health care system, so again, I'm open minded to the idea, BUT, I think the pace they are trying to cram this down our throats wreaks of Political agenda and posturing, and not about what is truly best for the US.

Good topic RRA.

[cableguyxx]

for anyone who may know: how is the compensation for doctors/medical professionals/researches decided? Any idea how this compares to current US levels? Is Medical School more affordable. I know many doctors are paying off student loans for years before they start doing well. Any ideas?

[Trigger]

Hi Darin, Though I can't speak for Medical Students in the USA I can speak about the ones I know here, most own homes and do start to earn money very fast, our local universitie atracts medical students from around the world. A very good friend of mine work in our state health service and owns a million and a half dollar house and drives a brand new BMW as well a severel sports cars.

Nobody who I know has suffered because they work in our state system.

[McLowery]

If the US could incarcerate all the criminals on Capitol Hill, we like to call them our elected leaders, then gut the insurance companies by creating law that restricts all health related policies to be non-profit and the US could maybe see a health care system that could work and it isn't socialized that way either.. I myself am a socialist so I could care less if the healthcare system becomes a social responsability. As it sits now, this bill is a joke, created to allow the insurance companies to rape the American taxpayer even worse than they allready do!

[NicDots]

Canada did it and made it work. In fact, when Canadians were polled and asked who the most important Canadian in history was, they said Tommy Douglas - the man who really introduced socialized health care to Canada.

The reason it will be difficult in this country is because Americans are greedy as hell. The insurance companies, the drug companies, the hospitals, the doctors themselves will all fight this thing because they don't want a limit on what they can charge and they will fight for the right to rape American citizens until they have all the money and the poor are dead. It sucks, but it's true. The debate isn't about what is best for the country, it's about who gets credit and who gets the most benefit (money, power, etc) when all is said and done.

The reason why others countries can do it and have relatively smooth sailing is that they do not NEARLY have the amount of people to provide for. Behind China and India, the US has the highest population at 333 million. And the great majority of those people hate paying taxes, hate the government, hate their doctors....blah blah blah. It never ends. I think people need to be more proactive in how they take care of themselves. I know in Japan, if you are a certain percentage over weight, I think the government cuts your health benefits partially until you lose weight. I think that's absolutely fair. People need to start living healthier lifestyles rather than banking on other people wiping asses for them. Put down the 3rd cheeseburger, don't smoke, and don't drink so much. Take some vitamins too and go for a nice walk. I bet lots of people will be healthier then.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

People need to start living healthier lifestyles rather than banking on other people wiping asses for them. Put down the 3rd cheeseburger, don't smoke, and don't drink so much. Take some vitamins too and go for a nice walk. I bet lots of people will be healthier then.

I think this is a relevant post in this thread and the stickied one on religion/atheism etc. People need to take responsibility for themselves and blame God and the Government less!! Great post Nicolex

Matt

[tedeeoo]

I think the biggest question for Americans with this is, do you trust your government to do this the right way. I think (and am probably one of the few that do) that most people in the U.S.A. would like to care of each other, we just don't all agree on how to get there. I personally would like to see this done the right way, I just wish Washington would take their time and really look at this rather than try to push it through as quickly as possible. Something as important as your country's welfare is worth taking the time to be sure you get it right the first time.

[Trigger]

I think the biggest question for Americans with this is, do you trust your government to do this the right way. I think (and am probably one of the few that do) that most people in the U.S.A. would like to care of each other, we just don't all agree on how to get there. I personally would like to see this done the right way, I just wish Washington would take their time and really look at this rather than try to push it through as quickly as possible. Something as important as your country's welfare is worth taking the time to be sure you get it right the first time.

In Britain healthcare and social reform was the principle political promise for the labour party during the post WWII election in 1946. They had instituted our natrioal heath service within 2 years of the election.

[tedeeoo]

I wasn't really trying to compare the U.S. to England or private health care to socialized. My point is that alot of people here do not trust our government to do this right (or trust them at all for that matter) and it seems like all Washington wants to do is push this through as quickly as possible. I have not heard government, media or anyone else give us an objective view of how a system such as yours in England would work here. I've been in the medical field my entire life (more or less) and I think this decision warrants alot more scrutiny than Washington seems to have given it. Not saying it won't work, quite the opposite, I think it can if it is done right, but I personally am not convinced that the plan the House has presented is the right plan. If our government truly wants us to go to socialized medicine, they need to just say so and do it, not have a plan that penalizes people and employers for not being able to purchase insurance, that will just add to the unrest that alot of Americans already have with our government.

[Paul Wolfe]

By the way; do you think our government is really after the public's best interest, regardless of party affiliation, or do you think they are after their own agenda?

That's what I meant with my 'rich people raping the poor' comment. Generally speaking the politician's who decide what will happen base their decisions on which lobbyist gives them the most money and how much power they will get if they vote a certain way on a bill. The moral aspect may start the ball rolling, but shortly thereafter it's all about greed and power.

I also agree that we have more citizens and we are generally lazy and cheap as a society. We hate to pay for the liberties we have and love to take everything (except paying taxes) to excess. We as a nation in the States need a fundamental shift in our attitudes before our government can honestly implement any real healthcare system.

Unfortunately, we wait for our government to dictate to us what to do before we do the right thing. For example, in Washington State, kids are required to wear helmets when riding a bike. Why? To prevent head injuries. Is it a good idea? Yes. Do people bitch because they have to wear them? Yes. Same with speed limits, seatbelt laws, alcohol and cigarette age limits. We have a ton of laws created in the best interest of the the citizenship of this country, but we bitch because we don't want people to tell us what to do. We'd rather do the wrong thing than be told what to do - even if it'll save our lives.

If a healthcare system can be implemented in any country, it can be implemented in all countries. It's a conceptual thing and simply the details must be adjusted based on size. In the US we love red tape and put so many 'safeguards' in place that nothing ever gets done. In my honest opinion, it doesn't matter what I think about the healthcare bill. The politicians will implement what they want regardless of what the citizenry thinks. Look ate the gay marriage thing, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and the illegal alien issue. Have any of those gone the way the majority wants?

[NicDots]

I would be for a National Healthcare system (a partial one, an option for those who want it) if preliminaries like I mentioned before were taken into account. If you want the tax payers of America to pay for your healthcare, you should have to stick to some rules: stay under a certain body fat limit, no smoking. Those two things eliminate so so so many health problems. However, if you have money and want your own private healthcare, peachy keen, you can get it. People say "you can't tell me what to do! I can smoke it I want to, I can eat a whole large pizza if I want to!" Sure, you can, but you're not gonna live long (and I don't wanna pay your medical bills) leading such a crap lifestyle. It's the similar argument my parents have thrown back at me whenever I am living with them. "As long as you live in our house, as long as we pay for school and health insurance, you will live by our rules." I hate that argument, but it's logical.

[NicDots]

As for government doing what the majority of people want it to...I wouldn't hold your breath. I remember my parents voting for Schwarzanegger, thinking he'd have the public schools interests at heart. And look what's happening now. Teachers are getting laid off, mandatory furlogh days, sports and music programs cutting the chop. Unbelievable. When state prisons get more funding than a high school, there is something extremely messed up going on.