Reality check.

[McLowery]

I hate being the bearer of bad news but I watched the following clip and the "big picture" of the message that it relays hit me like a kick in the nuts!! If you pay your taxes (that goes for all of us, UK and USA alike) this is what 75% of that money is paying for. It is time for the common person to stand against what they know is wrong, at all cost. Even if that cost is their life. For not doing so, they are condemning themselves and their children to die enslaved and embroiled in the madness this video presents.

The tax funded madness we've all allowed to ensue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsrMzfhdmkU

[Paul Wolfe]

When I was in the Army, there was no war going on, but I remember the egotistical, violent attitude of my immediate superiors. I can only imagine how much worse it gets when these men are sent off to war.

My two problems with that video are the comment about the 'white establishment' committing the atrocities and the fact that the video is meant to inflame with no suggestions on what to do to end the madness. 'No Justice, No Peace' is a nice slogan, but how is 'justice' supposed to be served?

I do agree with the fact that this country has done a lot of bad things over the years and our government has earned the hatred of many nations. However, the idea of attacking the citizens of the United States due to the anger caused by the government makes the attackers just as bad as the government the hate. The madness will not end until the people of this nation AND the people of all other nations decide to stop fighting fire with fire. An eye for an eye is not a solution, it is the never-ending root of violence and hate.

So to all who watch this video I ask, what can we do? And I also offer the same warning I did in the Vegan thread - every side has it's 'experts' who will manipulate data to convince us that they are right.

[McLowery]

Paul, I agree with you on a couple points. A rational solution to end these two wars hasn't come and I feel the longer they drag out the closer an irrational solution will be forced to happen. And it is ancient knowledge, hate breeds hate, violence begets violence and to wield the sword is to die by it. The ruling class of this world keeps every single generation of the human race fighting their wars. To skip a generation could likely mean the end of warfare. For a person not savvy to the ideology of warfare should be hard pressed to agree with it.

[Paul Wolfe]

Not to hijack this thread and lead it away from the original topic, but I just read this new item:

RICHMOND, Calif. — Four teens could appear in court as early as Thursday after being charged in the alleged gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside her high school homecoming dance in Northern California.

The four — ages 15, 16, 17 and 19 — were charged Wednesday with rape and enhancements that they acted in concert, which could make them eligible for life in prison.

"These are people who played a significant role in the incident," Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan said. "I'm confident that more arrests will be made."

Besides rape, the 19-year-old, Manuel Ortega of Richmond, was charged with robbery and assault causing great bodily injury. It was unknown if he had an attorney.

The other three face one count each of felony rape with a foreign object. They were charged as adults because of the severity of the crime, Gagan said. The 16-year-old also faces robbery charges.

All four remained in custody Wednesday. A fifth suspect arrested Tuesday, 21-year-old Salvador Rodriguez of Richmond, also remained jailed but had not been charged.

The alleged gang rape and beating Saturday night at Richmond High School have rattled the city of about 120,000 in the San Francisco Bay area.

Police believe as many as 10 people ranging in age from 15 to mid-20s attacked the girl for more than two hours in a dimly lit area. As many as two dozen people witnessed the rape without notifying police.

Dara Cashman, head of the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office sex crimes unit, told the Contra Costa Times, a Bay area newspaper, that those who witnessed the alleged rape and did not report it could face aiding and abetting charges — if it can be proven that their actions facilitated or goaded the perpetrators.

Police hope a $20,000 reward will bring more people forward with information.

Police received a tip about a possible assault on campus from a former student, who heard two males bragging about it. Officers found the girl semiconscious and naked from the waist down near a picnic table.

Margarita Vargas, who was watching television Saturday night with others at her home two blocks from the school campus, told the newspaper she reported the assault as soon as she heard about it. The newspaper did not say whether Vargas was a student at the school.

"They think it's cool," Vargas said of the alleged perpetrators. "They weren't raised to respect girls."

Gagan said the victim, a sophomore, left the dance and was walking to meet her father for a ride home when a classmate invited her to join a group drinking in the courtyard. The girl had consumed a large amount of alcohol by the time the assault began, police said.

Gagan said the girl's father tried to call her cell phone, but no one answered.

She was released from the hospital Wednesday.

I think that in a lot of ways, we as a nation need to start at home by changing our personal behaviors and attitudes. Drinking and sex are constantly being pushed in peoples faces and children who are not taught morals commit atrocious crimes against their peers when they follow the lead of the society they watch while growing up.

It greatly saddens me that a $20,000 dollar reward has to be offered to get people to step up and do the right thing.

Some people disagree with my religious beliefs, but based on those beliefs I won't let my children view a lot of the violent, negative behavior shown on television. I teach them to be tolerant and try to show them the other person's point of view when something happens at school that upsets them. I personally believe that if more parents would put their own interests and desires aside and commit to raising polite, loving, moralistic children, the world would become a better place in a generation or two.

[Paul Wolfe]

Here is another example of politics and the unwillingness to forgive just continues the hate.

63 years in prison for horrific murders that he may or may not have committed. He is now 81 and has done everything the prison system could ask for to be reformed. Why not grant him parole?

The lack of love and compassion in this world, coupled with greed and the egotistical need for power fuel every war I can think of.

[McLowery]

I saw the article about the rape yesterday and it's mind boggling how disconnected todays younger generation appears to be. I don't watch TV and if I had kids they wouldn't either coz I don't own one. All it is anymore is a zombie programming tool. I don't like censorship whatsoever but I do believe in responsability to ones work. The glorification of violence without tempering it with consequence, the idea that you better fuck them before they fuck you saturating every forum of communication and education and the idea of not being accountable for one's actions literally has become today's food for thought. I think EVERY broadcast channel in this country should be required to show one hour of uncensored, unaltered footage of both of the wars at the same time of day and it should be required study in all high school level curicculum. You don't have to be religious to know that the golden rule works and being selfless at times to help your fellow human beings out does alot more for the better good than bombing them into oblivion.

[Trigger]

before I go on I will have to say I haven't fully seen the video Mike but I will later but i feel after skimming the replies I have some idea (I will reead fully as well).
Here in Britain you can request that none of your tax is spent on the armed forces and you can request that a proportion is given to a charity of your choosing. That said I don't really believe that opting out of armed force funding is anything other than a box you can tick to make yourself feel better, I think regardless of opting out the funds go into one big pile then get divided.
I know when ever we have had subjects like this before they have become hijaked by certain individuals to drag us down. I welcome this subject and I will do my best to keep it focused because I value these exchanges and see them as mature as well as them lending themselves to better understanding each other. I say this because I have been accused of being a USA hater based on my own distrust of US overseas policy, anyone who knows me will realise that that is silly and I judge people based on nothing other than who they are or have proved themselves to be.

I never supported the war on Iraq and saw the war on terror as a distraction, sadly now we have to extracate ourselves and in the process have become even more hated than we were before.
I see the media as providing experts to prove either oppinion so based on that I have to agree with Paul which is why I relly on experience and search out sources that differ before I decide my view.
Like Mike I don't reallt watch TV and didn't have one until a year ago. I rarely watch TV and feel that modern media has helped poison younger peoples views on decency and has made some believe life is like a video game!!!!

So untill I have watched and read I will say bye for now and thankyou to Mike for letting this subject pop up again.

[McLowery]

I agree about reports being biased in view and wouldn't have posted about this clip if I hadn't looked into specific events and actions caused by the American occupation force. I am just recently reading accounts from British soldiers who have been deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan as well and I am finding a common ground from all of it. Their actions are eroding their sense of humanity it seems. They say much of the same things and when there is a question of amoral actions, the crimes are pretty much the same, heinous acts that most people couldn't get their head around. I think the blood on the hands of the lying politicians who will not swallow their pride and admit that they've done more harm than good by causing two wars they've already lost will not wash off very damn easily. I've talked to quite a few Iraqi veterans and from what I've learned from listening to them is that what is shown in the above clip is considered the rule, not the exception to it.