Help me understand

Sarab · Post by **Sarab** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:05 am

I pray every night before I go to bed, believe it or not. It is a habit that I had gotten into when my daughters were young.

My guess is that we don't question the pleasures, is because we take it for granted, as it is a "given".

I've just been in a blue funk for a little while, and it took just a little break in my upside-down life, to pull me out of it.

I can honestly say, that this thread has helped me look at other things as well; given me a different outlook towards life.

And to all of you I say THANK YOU

frank · Post by **frank** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:17 am

agreed. thank you to all who have participated in this thread. my observations are the result of a lifetime of introspection. i hope no offense is taken.

Sarab · Post by **Sarab** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:31 am

I look forward to this thread to see who's posted what, and what more can I learn.

frank · Post by **frank** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:28 am

RockyRhoads wrote:
siro_angel wrote:Christianity and The Bible has the following flaws...
In the King James Bible there was a law introduced "Thou shalt not allow a witch to live" YET! in the commandments there was a certian one saying "Thou shall not kill"??? excuse me but thats very contradictary.
Could you quote chapter and verse so it can be verified? In addition, you have to know your history, the King James version was the "official" Bible authorized by the King, the greed and ego inherent in a monarchy does lead the possibility that a text would be tailored to that specific person's beliefs - which this particular version was. Try reading the New International Version of the Bible whihc was translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek texts.

actually the king james version is pretty right-on. it was translated from the original hebrew, aramaic and greek manuscripts. n.i.v., new king james, new american standard... they're all accurate. even the douay (catholic) bible which was translated from latin manuscripts is in agreement with the others. pretty remarkable, i think.

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:04 am

RockyRhoads wrote:In addition, you have to know your history, the King James version was the "official" Bible authorized by the King, the greed and ego inherent in a monarchy does lead the possibility that a text would be tailored to that specific person's beliefs - which this particular version was. Try reading the New International Version of the Bible whihc was translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek texts.

so the international one isn't tailored ?
give me a break.

Post by **Trigger** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:22 am

When I grew up in Britain we had to pray in school every morning before classes began. We never really knew what it was for and it always seemed half hearted by the teachers and the kids. As we were kids we just wanted to mess around!

I know that throughout this thread we have seen the differences in belief on both sides of the Atlantic, I won't try to say it's development because the US is young and our nations are significantly older but I want to share with you when I realised that I had faith, faith in politics.

I was 11 and on a school trip and I had a real 'Road to Damascus' moment. I was traveling between Jerusalem and Bethlehem, I left the wealth of our western lifesyle and entered poverty and desperation. To a young kid it was astonishing, I had looked forward to seeing this, the birth place of Jesus. What I discovered was far more enlightening for me.
I fully believe that Jesus lived in Palestine two thousand years ago and that he struggled to make life better for his fellow man. He died making a protest against coruption and against the wickedness that follows in the wake of the rule of Empires (As a Brit, I know a thing or two about large Empires and how wicked they are) but most importantly he was a mortal man and I have learned a certain amount of ethics from him but he remains mortal to me.

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:19 pm

Trigger wrote: I fully believe that Jesus lived in Palestine two thousand years ago and that he struggled to make life better for his fellow man. He died making a protest against coruption and against the wickedness that follows in the wake of the rule of Empires (As a Brit, I know a thing or two about large Empires and how wicked they are) but most importantly he was a mortal man and I have learned a certain amount of ethics from him but he remains mortal to me.

Yes, there might have been a man named Jesus 2000 years ago
in Jerusalem. His father was no god though. His father was a
simple carpenter by the name Joseph.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:38 pm

Stiltzkin wrote:so the international one isn't tailored ?
give me a break.

One break, coming up...

Can you explain why you have such an angry tone regarding this subject? I'd also be interested in your opinion of why we are here and how we all came to be if youdo not believe in God. In addition, what are your feelings on the Islamic faith?

In regards to the "unfair" issue that started this thread, I found the following interesting:

Question: "Is God fair?"

Answer: Fortunately for us, God is not fair. Fairness would mean that everyone got exactly as he or she deserved and everyone would be treated the same. If God were completely fair, we would all spend eternity in hell paying for our sin, which is exactly what we deserve. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23) and are therefore worthy of eternal death (Romans 6:23). If we received what we deserve, we would end up in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15). But God is not fair; instead, He is merciful and good, so He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve (2 Corinthians 5:21). All we have to do is believe in Him and we will be saved, forgiven, and receive an eternal home in heaven (John 3:16).

However, despite GodÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s loving grace, no one would believe in Him on his own (Romans 3:10-18). God has to draw us to Himself in order for us to believe (John 6:44). God does not draw everyone, but only certain people He has sovereignly chosen (Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:5,11). This is not ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œfairÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â

Post by **The Flying Dutchman** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:01 pm

frank wrote:
The Flying Dutchman wrote: Why should there be a reason? Why do we need to think that everything has a reason? It's maybe too much for us to accept. If we live in a pulsonic universe, what's the reason to start everythng over again and again?
"The Unexamined Life is Not Worth Living" Socrates.

the fact that we can question and reason and argue the point leads me to believe that there is something inside of us that can't be satisfied with random existentialism. the study of biology (or any science) and how wonderfully everything is put together is an argument in itself that life is no accident.
look beyond the design and recognize the architect.

one thing though. i would like to make a distinction between organized religion and the scriptures. i see some difficulty in these posts regarding what mankind has done in the name of God. i'm with you on that one guys. leave it to people to muck up things.

the scriptures reveal Gods mind. there are no contradictions. "an eye for an eye" is Gods way of introducing justice to an unjust world. Christ fulfilled the Creators demand for justice and in the completion of that task "turn the other cheek" became finally attainable. we have the ability to walk with the One who made us. it's quite an incredible ride.

don't take my word for it. ask Him yourself. just be ready for the answer.

Heey Frank,
Life, whole nature on earth itself for sure is some nice architecture! And it's up to everyone to interprete that in their own way.
But my question is, why does this architecture exists? My question goes maybe even behind God. Imagine this: there could be also nothing.......... can you imagine that? Nothing.... That gives a weird feeling. But I have to keep options open, something exists or it doesn't.
So everything is created by God? Ok, maybe, but who created God then? And so on and on! Questions will always remain.
If we look at the universe itself we can say it's a nice architecture, but there is also a lot of chaos in the universe. There is even a Chaos Theory in science for that!
Think about this: if you never in your life heard anyone talk about God, relegion or whatever, would you still question things like why we are here? Would someone come on his own that there must be a higher power? Would someone receive the message from God anyway? Most people become familiar with religion by other people...... but what if they never met these people?
For some people I know they had those questions too and 'solved' them for themselves when they found a religion. Quick and easy, so they wouldn't be bothered anymore with some fundamental questions.......
I think I am a sort of sceptical believer. The existing religions don't give me satisfying answers. I don't say there isn't a God either, honestly I don't know....... And I can (have to) live with that.... I know there are people who can't so they solved it with a religion. This is not a stab to the believers, I can only speak for myself, if people do/can believe and feeling better with that then I think it's a great gift !

And who knows, maybe one day He/She/It will speak to me as well!

I appreciate your (& everyone elses) posts Frank! I'm afraid this will become a never ending topic!

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:09 pm

Dutch, I want to say thank you for posting thoughtful responses that explain your personal point of view while acknowledging that other's points of view are equally valid.

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:10 pm

RockyRhoads wrote:acknowledging that other's points of view are equally valid.

that's where you fail.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:46 pm

Stiltzkin wrote:
RockyRhoads wrote:acknowledging that other's points of view are equally valid.
that's where you fail.

Why must you be a jerk? At what point, specifically, did I fail to acknowledge that anyone else's opinion was not valid? You have been trying to pick a fight for days on this subject and I have been explaining my point of view. You have not once explained your point of view, you simply talk trash. Why?

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:18 pm

RockyRhoads wrote: At what point, specifically, did I fail to acknowledge that anyone else's opinion was not valid?

RockyRhoads wrote: I don't care for people saying there are "flaws" in my beliefs, because there are not.

that's where.

siro_angel · Post by **siro_angel** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Trigger wrote:
Yes, there might have been a man named Jesus 2000 years ago
in Jerusalem. His father was no god though. His father was a
simple carpenter by the name Joseph.

Sounds like a jerry springer show...

wait a minute that was my RE Homework before it got ripped up by my teacher, we had to modernise a bible story, so mine was of Joseph and God arguing whos the father of jesus with mary too!

Simon

Sarab · Post by **Sarab** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:17 pm

Ok, now let's not start flinging out of chairs and start attaking each other for our beliefs.

What started out as an innocent question, has turned into a very genuine, heart-felt discussion.

Stiltzkin wrote:
Yes, there might have been a man named Jesus 2000 years ago
in Jerusalem. His father was no god though. His father was a
simple carpenter by the name Joseph.

I was always lead to believe that God was Jesus' father, and Joseph was Mary's husband, His "step-father".