Help me understand

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:58 pm

Trigger wrote:
RockyRhoads wrote: Our fault in the west during the 1920's and 30's was to be complicit in allowing the Third Reich to expand had we Russia, USA and the British Empire worked together then, it would have shown strengh.

When the United States chose to declare war in Iraq, is it possible that some felt that removing Saddam was a way of not allowing another Hitler? For 30 years that man did unspeakable things to his own people and because George W. Bush decided to go into Iraq and give those people a chance, he is considered a devil.

Would the "Allied" powers have faced the same attitude had they dealt with Hitler earlier?

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:17 pm

Bush went into Iraq because he's a warmonger
like his old man, and he wants access to their oil.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:06 pm

Stiltzkin wrote:Bush went into Iraq because he's a warmonger
like his old man, and he wants access to their oil.

Yeah, that's the going theory, but what if it was to eliminate Saddam and free the people of Iraq? I'm speaking hypothetically here.

Wouldn't it be a good thing that Saddam was removed from power so that the Iraqi people could experience the freedom of choice granted to all people by God Himself?

Sarab · Post by **Sarab** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:37 pm

WOW!
This tread went from an innocent question about "unfair" to Saddam!
Talk about chain reaction! I think I'll give it a new spin.
I believe that everyone is given the choice of free will, but not everyone is "allowed" to use it.
I'm not talking about the countries that are still being run by dictatorship; I'm talking about things in our own backyard.
We, as human beings, have the power to hurt one another in some sort of form. Be it physical, or mental, we have the power to do this. We also have the power to stop it.
How much more we take of the violence or abuse should we take?
We try to get out, but the threats are are real. Our free will is gone. Our self-esteem is shot. By the time we exercise our free will, it may be too late.
My sister was lucky. She got the courage to have it stopped. But, what if she hadn't? Then, that is one more person who's free will has been stripped. The point is, if we are all supposed to love mankind, why don't we? Why to we intentionally hurt one another in some sort of shape or form?

Sorry,
something about Saddam just hit a raw nerve, and had to rant for a moment or two.
Continue on, please.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:59 pm

Gina, I agree, that we humans do take the free will of others away.

I don't believe God has ever revoked anyone's free will. He simply demands that we accept the consequences of the choices we make.

In the case of of someone who is abused, I believe it is the responsibilty of everyone to step in and help the abused. However many people don't want to get involved for any number of reasons, so they choose not to.

On an grand scale or a small scale, freedom of choice is the same. I feel that abortion is wrong but I believe that people have a God-given right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. I believe God gave mankind free will and mankind does not have the right to take that free will away.

frank · Post by **frank** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:24 am

holy cow...i go away for a couple of days and...!
this thread ROCKS.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:30 am

frank wrote:holy cow...i go away for a couple of days and...!
this thread ROCKS.

Should I explain God's position on rocks now?

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:42 am

RockyRhoads wrote:He simply demands that we accept the consequences of the choices we make.

hey, that's called common sense,
we don't need a god for that.

RockyRhoads wrote:In the case of of someone who is abused, I believe it is the responsibilty of everyone to step in and help the abused.

so when things go bad god is not to blame?
but if god things happen, it's 'cause of god?

this is getting ridiculous.
no wonder religion is the biggest reason for war

frank · Post by **frank** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:55 am

politics AND religion. my goodness but we're fearless! just kidding guys, trying to keep it light. seriously though, i do admire the level of civility around here. some other places, controversial topics like this would incite a feeding frenzy.

Post by **Trigger** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:42 am

RockyRhoads wrote:By the way, thanks Joe, for allowing me to talk like this here. I was thrown out of another site for mentioning God...

You're very welcome Paul

Trigger

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:59 pm

Stiltzkin wrote:
RockyRhoads wrote:He simply demands that we accept the consequences of the choices we make.
hey, that's called common sense,
we don't need a god for that.

RockyRhoads wrote:In the case of of someone who is abused, I believe it is the responsibilty of everyone to step in and help the abused.
so when things go bad god is not to blame?
but if god things happen, it's 'cause of god?

this is getting ridiculous.
no wonder religion is the biggest reason for war

So you don't like the idea that God provides good things for people and people's greed warps this world? Think of it as a parent child situation: does the parent do both good things and bad things to the child (please don't start on the "abusive" parent thing, I'm talking in general here) ? No, the parent provides good for the child, yet bad things sometimes happen. That is not the parent's fault.

As for the reason for war, it is never about religion, it is always about power and greed. Religion is used to cover up the ugly truth because the general public would never get behind someone who declared war on another country by saying, "I want money and power, let's kill them!"

This thread is a discussion but it seems that you are keeping your mind closed and trying to twist things to prove me wrong. If that is not true, then I apologize.

What I am saying is this: You have been given the freedom of choice to either accept or reject God. I am simply playing the role of information giver and trying to spark conversation about a subject that is important to me. What is ridiculous about that?

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:03 pm

frank wrote:politics AND religion. my goodness but we're fearless! just kidding guys, trying to keep it light. seriously though, i do admire the level of civility around here. some other places, controversial topics like this would incite a feeding frenzy.

That did happen to me at another place.

Post by **The Flying Dutchman** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:39 pm

RockyRhoads wrote:
frank wrote:politics AND religion. my goodness but we're fearless! just kidding guys, trying to keep it light. seriously though, i do admire the level of civility around here. some other places, controversial topics like this would incite a feeding frenzy.
That did happen to me at another place.

Yes, but we are now here and not there!

And I think this is a very interesting topic! (as long everyone repects each opinion on this)

btw:
We are all insecure and want to feel safe, so isn't GOD maybe an invention that came out of human insecurity?

siro_angel · Post by **siro_angel** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:06 pm

The Flying Dutchman wrote: We are all insecure and want to feel safe, so isn't GOD maybe an invention that came out of human insecurity?

so true in my eyes and the bible in my eyes was made as a bedtime story.

now look i am not being antichristy here, even though i dont take well to christianity but i do see flaws in christianity.

Simon

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:17 pm

The Flying Dutchman wrote:
btw:
We are all insecure and want to feel safe, so isn't GOD maybe an invention that came out of human insecurity?

No, not in my opinion.

siro_angel wrote: i do see flaws in christianity.

Simon

Would you please elaborate?