Going to war and the legal drinking age

[Paul Wolfe]

BTW,i trained myself to handle alcohol quite well when i was younger but i rarely drink.I am also older than you.

Really? How old am I?

All you ever seem to do is come here and bitch about things, Oth... you won't use your real name and you talk smack. Oh, and you are incapable of intelligent argument as far as I can tell, because your responses always begin or end with you calling someone stupid.

I am not now, nor was I ever an alcoholic. I drink from time to time and handle it fine, because I know when to stop. I have an 18-year-old child, so I can say just how mature an 18-year-old is. In addition, I work in a hotel where the majority of employees are between the ages of 18 and 25, so i have a pretty good feel for what is important to that age group.

Soldiers don't need any special privileges. They choose their profession, there is no draft. So, they should wait until the law says they can drink, just like everyone else. The majority of the soldiers in the United States are mature enough to be good citizens, I would hope, but not all of them are. I was in the Army, so I know first hand how well an 18-year-old soldier will handle is alcohol.

So, Oth... why should soldiers be treated differently? Why do they need alcohol? I would appreciate an intelligent debate on the subject, without derogatory comments. I really would like to understand your point of view. If you are older than me, as you claim, then let's discuss this and maybe you'll convince me that my point of view needs to be adjusted.

If you just want to talk shit, then I'm done.

[The Flying Dutchman]

I think alcohol and guns are a dangerous combination......

[wareagle]

....

[RRfish]

Have to agree with Paul, and Patrick on this one. Having a Father who served at Pearl Harbor in the Navy on the Sub, that ultimately ended that situation, and a Brother who was a Firefighter on an Aircraft Carrier in Vietnam, who saw more than one can imagine, or even conceive of. Generations have very different ways of dealing with loss. My dads generation, and crew mates were able to see, and deal with the positive, even though I know they probably all had drank, and had enlisted at 17. (They kept it all in, and never spoke of the negative, although I remember funny conversations about sleeping in hammocks over torpedoes in cramped conditions, I know there was a lot more inside that was not let out because of stigma, "men are not suppose to be weak or show that type of emotion") My brother enlisted at 17, and when discharged from his service had no one here is the US, to fall back on, he fell back on his fellow service friends who all drank. We were all abroad at the time. And as they all did in the Navy at that time, he continued to drink. It ruined his life, and he is the sweetest thing. My Dad never knew how to deal with it, and as a result, his comments were always "Man UP !" Sorry to say, but if I had seen Pilots of Injured aircraft crash into the deck of an aircraft carrier, and had to scrape up the remains of friends I had known, I would have drank too. Anxiety and Paranoia, become a part of someone, when the affects of drink, and pot no longer have the affect once that gave so much calmness and pleasure, one has become a custom to. Our government (VA) has never been able to handle or provide the necessary counceling that these fine soldiers deserve or what they have faced. Yes, we can bail out the US Banks that have defrauded many, but the VA has not enough money to treat our fine young men, or set up another bed, yet alone remove the stigma that has been attached to men having emotion. My brother-in-law, served in the Marines as a Helicopter Pilot, who picked up soldiers in the middle of heavy combat in Vietnam, many times having to leave soldiers , and civilians behind because the gunfire was too heavy. Those soldiers and civilians lives were sealed by fate. And he knew it. He is the sweetest most calm person you would ever meet. He is almost always a very upbeat and positive person, yet his experiences have injured the productivity of his business, and up until recently drank very heavily. Maybe to forget ? ? ?

There is nothing that will ever stop underage service men from being provided the drink,or drugs for that matter, which is a sad state of affairs. And that I am sure of. This has been a part of History before, and will continue sadly. But whether you are 16, or 75, no one should think that they are able to handle drink or pot, get behind the wheel of a car, let alone be able to handle a gun to fight for our beliefs. It just does not make sense.I don't mean to offend anyone, but I say what I feel and feel what I say ! People think they are able to handle these things,(booze & drugs) but what state of mind are they in when they think they can handle it ? ? NONE !

[RRfish]

By the way my father had a new wife, and a "Whole" family in New York to return to. My brother in-law, although he had lost his father prior to his enlistment, and had become the man of the house, knew he had a full scholarship to Harvard and family to return to.(since his father had been a professor at Harvard) . Out of four brothers, only my sweetest one, served and had no one here to return to! How do we discriminate as to who can handle drinking in the military and who can not ? No one can make that choice for so many coming from different backgrounds.

[rice_pudding]

People think they are able to handle these things,(booze & drugs) but what state of mind are they in when they think they can handle it ? ? NONE !

Very true, everyone i've ever met who is a heavy drinker or claims they can "handle it" inevitably cant.

Alcohol and drugs offer a handful of benefits (depending on your perspective) and a handful of negatives (depending on your perspectives). I think in most cases people dont realise they are using the negative effects and taking them as positives. In my expierience many people drink alcohol (heavily) because it detaches them from their emotions and helps them deal with emotional and mental problems, something i myself am guilty of. In this way you could say alcohol has positive effects, but the truth is, its cutting out a part of your humanity. Alcohol is a poison, im not saying that as a preacher, its just the truth... drink too much you get sick, drink more you die. Alcohol is just another form of self harm. Of course people use narcotics to extremes recreationaly, but i just find that kind of sad.

You cant master alcohol and drugs, once they are in your system you are just along for the ride, you might like it, you might not, but there's not much you can do about it.

Rob

[Ritchie]

Having been on "both sides of the fence" , I can honestly say that being sober and straight edge definately is the way to go , for me .
Jimi Hendrix in his tripped out state would never have written a lot of the music he did if he was straight , Pink Floyd the same if they were'nt sparking up the scoobs every 15 minutes ..

But if you ask just about anybody who once hit the bottle or snorted their way through the day and has now forgone that lifestyle will say that it's much better now they're clean , problems in life will NOT disappear from getting drunk or getting high to try and hide or mask them fact ! even OzzY once said about his many times he tried to quit the booze that the bad shit always happened to him when he was loaded .

This talk of "training" yourself to handle drinking is bullshit ! , but with that being said , the more you drink or do drugs the body does build a level of tolerance and it seems you need more to get a buzz on , but by that stage your brain is fucked up anyways .

Straight is awesome , lifes general problems are easily tackeled , and life makes more "sense" , and being able to do something with a totally clear mind and giving it 110% definately has it's payoffs , I have found my music or more to the point my guitar playing has improved ten fold since I quit drinking a few years ago .. once again I'm only speaking for myself .

[rice_pudding]

Jimi Hendrix in his tripped out state would never have written a lot of the music he did if he was straight , Pink Floyd the same if they were'nt sparking up the scoobs every 15 minutes ..

I have often questioned this myself , but to be honest i dont think that drugs enhance an artists ability, if anything i would say turning to drugs shows insecurity or lack of ability, perhaps at best it convinces us what we do is good when normally we would be more self-critical and cast good music to the wind.

I dont know of any story where drugs have deffineatly helped, but there are many stories of how they have hindered musicians. I remember an interview in which someone mentioned (a studio engineer or something i think) that the more hendrix got into drugs the more slopy his playing was and it took him more takes to finnish recording a track.

Some people think that drugs will reveal new layers of the world to you, again, i myself would say this is bull. Drugs alter our perceptual powers; if you put on a pair of glasses that alter the way you see, walk around with pepper under your nose and suck on a chilli then your perception has been altered and yes im sure your expierience will be different. But that doesnt reveal the world to you it just adds another layer between your perception and reality.


That is just my opinion, but having sat myself on both sides of the fence i have no doubt what i prefer.

Rob

[Alex]

xx123456

[wareagle]

hahaha thats awesome.

[Paul Wolfe]

Few has made the realization that we are not separate from each other without using drugs.

Huh?

[Alex]

xx123456

[tedeeoo]

On the subject of legalizing pot, sorry, been in the medical field for way to long and have actually seen how it kills a human brain, so I cannot agree with a whole-scale legalization of it. Plus, the first time somebody gets in a car "high" and kills someone, is to many times, also health care cost would probably rise because we would definately see more cancer cases. However, I do think in a medical situation, such as terminally ill patients who are in constant pain, there should be access to it, I also think there should be extensive research done on the medical benefits of the individual components of the drug as well as other "illegal" drugs, especially if you can isolate compounds that work without the less desirable effects (i.e. migraines and lsd). And just to state it, I have not, I do not, and will not use drugs or alcohol, I prefer to find my highs and creative moments in other ways, although I do think Aerosmith were a much better band when they were "loaded", lol!!!!!! Just my 2 cents worth, don't read too much into it, lol!!!!

[wareagle]

..

[tedeeoo]

Hey Eagle,

As far as modern medicine, its just like anything else, there is good and bad, believe me I've seen enough of it to know. "Weed" has many compounds within it, and they don't have to be smoked to have cancerous effects, but aside from that, "smoking" would be the preferred delivery method wouldn't it. The problem I have with trying to regulate it is, like any drug legal or illegal, eventually the restricted amount an addict can have is not enough, and by legalizing it you would have many more addicts. Not saying you or anyone here would be, some people can take it or leave it, but I have done labwork on to many "non-addicted" potheads at one of the re-hab centers here in Mississippi for anyone to tell me that "pot" is not addictive. When you look at it from that perspective as well as from a law-enforcment point of view (my brother is a cop), it is not nearly as attractive as it seems, and I think as far as raising revenue in this country, we would be much better served by politicians who were responsible about spending (and in no way am I saying that this will ever be the case or that it is remotely possible), than by legalizing pot. Again, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, that's just my opinion and everyone else is entitled to theirs also. If I knew a "joint" would stop my migraines for good, I'd be very tempted, I'd have to say no, but I'd be very tempted, pain is a bitch!!!!!