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Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:56 am
by CanuckRhoadsFan
Paul Wolfe wrote:CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:Paul, with all due respect, you keep changing the question here because it seems you're not getting the answer you want.
No, most of the answers are "Randy was great." Which has nothing to do with historical significance. So I've
revised the wording to make it more clear. I initially asked what the historical importance of Randy is, that means when looking back at the history of metal, why would Randy Rhoads be important?
"Because he's great" is not relevant, "Because he had awesome solos," is not relevant. "I like Randy because," is not relevant.
Jimi is historically important because he made soloing a central focus of a song, he did things no one else ever thought of doing with a guitar and because he shifted the focus from songs to individual musician talent.
EVH is important because he took technical ability to a phenomenal level never before imagined & he brought the idea of tapping to the table which was subsequently copied by
everyone after him.
So, again, why is Randy significant historically? Classical modes were already in use, Randy listened to Purple and Scorpions and was inspired by them. Composed soloing was already present in rock, Randy listened to and was inspired by Michael Schenker. What is
unique about Randy to make him significant?
As I said before the
only thing I can see is that he made it cool to take lessons and talk about studying music. That is
huge by the way. Randy made it cool - in my opinion - to study and practice. Prior to that nobody talked about taking lessons and nobody
talked about modes. Randy was a teacher, so his significance being that he made it cool to study music is a fitting legacy.
While I agree with you that he made studying music and taking lessons cool I think that's a very small part of his significance, I also think "revising" the question and "changing" the question is semantics....splitting hairs. In addition, I think that there's a little bit of you being the proverbial Devil's Advocate on this one. Once again, I'm not trying to be rude, but simply trying to follow where you're going with this, debate-wise. I, too, am interested in what Randy's significance is as well, as I'm sure others on the board are.
True, people are in some cases responding with personal opinions, but your own statements are provocative also, and by minimizing his "significance" (with saying he made studying music cool...I think that is a minimalist statement at best) you are, in essence, trying to provoke an emotional response from people. Also, by repeating, "yes, but why was he significant?", it's clear that you are not finding the answer you, personally, seek. And is there a baseline for "significance"? I'm curious that this discussion has been protracted out so long.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:06 am
by sytharnia
Paul Wolfe wrote:
So, again, why is Randy significant historically?
ok based on this post randys significance historically would only be co creating not only JACKSON guitars (in a side ways kinda a way) but more importantly the RR1
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:53 am
by Tito
if paul is trying to provoke an emotional response then it looks like he got it from you..learn to read with an opened mind instead of bieng biased
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:33 pm
by CanuckRhoadsFan
Tito wrote:if paul is trying to provoke an emotional response then it looks like he got it from you..learn to read with an opened mind instead of bieng biased
Did you even read what I wrote, Tito?
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:10 pm
by Isodee
Paul Wolfe wrote:In 2048, whe a kid is looking back on music, why would Randy's name be in the conversation?
Because he co-wrote and played guitar on the first two classic Ozzy albums and died tragically in a plane crash at 25. The same reason why we are here at UR today.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:37 pm
by whoopiecat
His rep is built on just nineteen songs, from two albums. He was also able to help a well known, but burnt out singer, (Le Parc Hotel, anyone?), chart in the US top ten twice, (Sabbath made it as high as #52 on the US charts with Iron Man), and he did indeed play a part in helping design what quickly became a very popular guitar body style, thusly helping launch a guitar company.
Now, Jake and Zakk also helped Oz enjoy top ten status, but the genre was much more popular after Randy's passing. Again, I believe he played a part in helping with Hard Rock/ Heavy Metal dominating popular music.
Lastly, I would say that there are testimonials of a sort on this very site, from folks who have applied Randy's practice ethics to their own love and appreciation of music, whether they play guitar or not.
The tragedy there is, he never got to truly enjoy the fruits of his labors...at least that's how I see it.
Hopefully, the above will not seem "irrelevant" to the discussion.
~T.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:00 pm
by Tito
CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:Tito wrote:if paul is trying to provoke an emotional response then it looks like he got it from you..learn to read with an opened mind instead of bieng biased
Did you even read what I wrote, Tito?
i did brother.pauls question is a good one..for me,personally i just dont feel people are going to know who randy is in say 15 20 years from now..unless things keep coming up to spread his legacy to newer audiences..i really wish someone could make a 2 or 3 hour documentary on him..i mean damn alot of people dont even know quiet riot was formed by randy..i hope im wrong but thats my opinion on it.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:54 am
by CanuckRhoadsFan
Isodee wrote:Paul Wolfe wrote:In 2048, whe a kid is looking back on music, why would Randy's name be in the conversation?
Because he co-wrote and played guitar on the first two classic Ozzy albums and died tragically in a plane crash at 25. The same reason why we are here at UR today.
+1
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:10 am
by CanuckRhoadsFan
Tito wrote:CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:Tito wrote:if paul is trying to provoke an emotional response then it looks like he got it from you..learn to read with an opened mind instead of bieng biased
Did you even read what I wrote, Tito?
i did brother.pauls question is a good one..for me,personally i just dont feel people are going to know who randy is in say 15 20 years from now..unless things keep coming up to spread his legacy to newer audiences..i really wish someone could make a 2 or 3 hour documentary on him..i mean damn alot of people dont even know quiet riot was formed by randy..i hope im wrong but thats my opinion on it.
I agree with you that, sadly, I see Randy's legacy fading into obscurity. When fans like us that grew up with the music are gone, I think that unless something profound happens that brings Randy to the forefront, people will forget about him and his music.
Whether people like it or not, the reason he will be remembered for his work with Ozzy. Also, seeing as he played on just two albums, albeit THE MOST IMPORTANT two albums in Ozzy's catalogue, the albums that he's based a career on, he is, whether we like it or not, a small (but crucial) part of Ozzy's history. I say this from the hypothetical perspective of someone looking in, who is just a casual fan. Unless they are interested in the genesis of Ozzy's career and those two albums (which they well should be, but not everyone is), they're not going to care.
I'm sad that this seems to be the path that Randy's memory will go down, but no one has stepped up to secure a way to ensure his legacy will be protected and remembered in the future, have they? It's the same old story with anything Randy; hurry up and wait, and be content with complacency. I, and I'm sure all of you, feel that Randy's music and legacy deserve more than a passing acknowledgement and getting-further-into-the-past-as-we-speak remembrances told through rose-colored glasses. I highly doubt we will get anything but that for a variety of reasons, but that's the cold, hard truth.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:12 pm
by orion_damage
CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:
I agree with you that, sadly, I see Randy's legacy fading into obscurity. When fans like us that grew up with the music are gone, I think that unless something profound happens that brings Randy to the forefront, people will forget about him and his music.
Whether people like it or not, the reason he will be remembered for his work with Ozzy. Also, seeing as he played on just two albums, albeit THE MOST IMPORTANT two albums in Ozzy's catalogue, the albums that he's based a career on, he is, whether we like it or not, a small (but crucial) part of Ozzy's history. I say this from the hypothetical perspective of someone looking in, who is just a casual fan. Unless they are interested in the genesis of Ozzy's career and those two albums (which they well should be, but not everyone is), they're not going to care.
I'm sad that this seems to be the path that Randy's memory will go down, but no one has stepped up to secure a way to ensure his legacy will be protected and remembered in the future, have they? It's the same old story with anything Randy; hurry up and wait, and be content with complacency. I, and I'm sure all of you, feel that Randy's music and legacy deserve more than a passing acknowledgement and getting-further-into-the-past-as-we-speak remembrances told through rose-colored glasses. I highly doubt we will get anything but that for a variety of reasons, but that's the cold, hard truth.[/quote]
I disagree, Randy helped create one of the greatest rock/metal riffs of all time in Crazy Train. Which is also one of the most recognizable, popular and utilized rock/metal songs. Like someone said earlier, things will probably stay the way they are with musicians and Ozzy fans chatting on boards.
I think if a great documentary was made about his entire life and it got decent exposure that would certainly help give everyone a refresher. Man I just wish the "Last Train Home" would get released. That looked so promising.
Speaking of, does anyone have the full trailer for that? I'd love to see it since YouTube only has a 7 minute version.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:49 pm
by Paul Wolfe
CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:Also, by repeating, "yes, but why was he significant?", it's clear that you are not finding the answer you, personally, seek.
I want to know what people here think is Randy's historical significance... to me saying "He wrote great songs" or "
Crazy Train is a classic riff" doesn't seem like "It".
Sweet Child O' Mine is a classic riff, so does that make Slash in the same league of significance as Randy? Angus Young never did anything that hadn't been done before him, yet his significance is definitely there.
With this question, I was hoping to start a conversation that doesn't break down into a name-calling bitch-fest like so many threads here.
sytharnia wrote:Paul Wolfe wrote:
So, again, why is Randy significant historically?
ok based on this post randys significance historically would only be co creating not only JACKSON guitars (in a side ways kinda a way) but more importantly the RR1
I hadn't even thought about the guitars he helped create... interesting point.
Isodee wrote:Paul Wolfe wrote:In 2048, whe a kid is looking back on music, why would Randy's name be in the conversation?
Because he co-wrote and played guitar on the first two classic Ozzy albums and died tragically in a plane crash at 25. The same reason why we are here at UR today.
True, most of us came to this site because of an interest in Randy's guitar playing on the first 2 Ozzy records... personally I
hate the fact that every magazine article of the last 30 years about Randy Rhoads has to mention that he "died tragically"...
whoopiecat wrote:His rep is built on just nineteen songs, from two albums. He was also able to help a well known, but burnt out singer, (Le Parc Hotel, anyone?), chart in the US top ten twice, (Sabbath made it as high as #52 on the US charts with Iron Man), and he did indeed play a part in helping design what quickly became a very popular guitar body style, thusly helping launch a guitar company... I would say that there are testimonials of a sort on this very site, from folks who have applied Randy's practice ethics to their own love and appreciation of music, whether they play guitar or not.
Well said
As for the documentary, it will never happen. Sharon wanted control and didn't get it, so she squashed it. What
would make Randy huge would be a big-budget Hollywood dramatic production along the lines of
La Bamba or
The Buddy Holly Story, in my opinion. Get a good-looking actor who resembles Randy (think Val Kilmer in
The Doors) and every teenage girl will be smitten and teenage boys (and some girls) will latch onto the dream of going from a kid with a guitar to a rock star.
How to get that going is anyone's guess.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:43 pm
by orion_damage
Paul Wolfe wrote:CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:Also, by repeating, "yes, but why was he significant?", it's clear that you are not finding the answer you, personally, seek.
I want to know what people here think is Randy's historical significance... to me saying "He wrote great songs" or "
Crazy Train is a classic riff" doesn't seem like "It".
Sweet Child O' Mine is a classic riff, so does that make Slash in the same league of significance as Randy? Angus Young never did anything that hadn't been done before him, yet his significance is definitely there.
With this question, I was hoping to start a conversation that doesn't break down into a name-calling bitch-fest like so many threads here.
sytharnia wrote:Paul Wolfe wrote:
So, again, why is Randy significant historically?
ok based on this post randys significance historically would only be co creating not only JACKSON guitars (in a side ways kinda a way) but more importantly the RR1
I hadn't even thought about the guitars he helped create... interesting point.
Isodee wrote:Paul Wolfe wrote:In 2048, whe a kid is looking back on music, why would Randy's name be in the conversation?
Because he co-wrote and played guitar on the first two classic Ozzy albums and died tragically in a plane crash at 25. The same reason why we are here at UR today.
True, most of us came to this site because of an interest in Randy's guitar playing on the first 2 Ozzy records... personally I
hate the fact that every magazine article of the last 30 years about Randy Rhoads has to mention that he "died tragically"...
Well said
As for the documentary, it will never happen. Sharon wanted control and didn't get it, so she squashed it. What
would make Randy huge would be a big-budget Hollywood dramatic production along the lines of
La Bamba or
The Buddy Holly Story, in my opinion. Get a good-looking actor who resembles Randy (think Val Kilmer in
The Doors) and every teenage girl will be smitten and teenage boys (and some girls) will latch onto the dream of going from a kid with a guitar to a rock star.
How to get that going is anyone's guess.
Is there any proof to Sharon squashing the documentary?
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:13 pm
by Isodee
Paul Wolfe wrote:personally I hate the fact that every magazine article of the last 30 years about Randy Rhoads has to mention that he "died tragically"...
True but the fact he died young is a major part of the myth. Dying young makes musicians legends.
This board wouldn't exist if he hadn't got into that plane.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:50 pm
by dannyahansen
Paul Wolfe wrote:
I hadn't even thought about the guitars he helped create... interesting point.
This is one I should have thought of. I think this is quit significant. How many people have created a guitar that is iconic. I think this alone will keep Randy's name in the main stream for a long time to come.
I mean Les Paul had his guitar, Randy has his, Van Halen had his. There is really not many out side of that. I am not talking signature guitars. I am talking about a guitar that was designed by an artist. For instance Slash gets a signature Les Paul but it is still a Les Paul. If I get a Jackson RR1 it is still a Randy Rhoads 1. IT is still a guitar that was mostly designed by Randy with some changes made by me. This point is worth looking at more. IT is a great point.
Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:52 pm
by dannyahansen
Isodee wrote:
This board wouldn't exist if he hadn't got into that plane.
I don't know about that. It probably would exist it would just look and feel different. I am quit certain he still would be regarded as a great guitar hero and a legend. Things would be very different though.