Randy Rhoads Revelation and Believer solo mistakes in mix

[mojopin70]

Heres an interesting thing for any guitar player or avid listener of music, i was reading a Max Norman interview in an old guitar player magazine about how Randy would double or triple his solos , no problems there.He goes on to say they were so good that if they werent spot on you would not hear them in the centre of the mix and they would split .Anyway these days i have a tiny mp3 player with headphones that i listen to sometimes and i came across 2 mistakes in Randys doubled /tripled takes.I say mistakes because the first one is Revelation Mother Earth and im pretty sure he was around for the mixing.So it was either he didnt notice when he heard the mix back or Max Norman mixed the wrong takes together ( basically he took 1 take and a different take that was slightly different and didnt match them correctly...)

I know they werent around for the mixing of Diary of a Madman but were for Blizzard.

The solos in question are Revelation Mother Earth and Believer.

Revelation run starts at 5.26 mins 5.28 the takes are different....( listen to right then left of these portions or left then right)

Believer at 3.26

I dont know how many of you are guitar players know anything about recording/mixing but its clear on the recordings to me at least....

[guitarsteve]

Yep... I listened and heard it... albeit I had to review each track several times to compare. You're correct that the tracks aren't mirrored takes. But I am a guitar player and vocalist and have had experience in the studio, and I can tell you this... if you are your own worst critic about your music you will spend eons going back to fix the minor flubs the more playbacks you review. And in this day and age of digital technology it is easy peasy japanesey to do it. Back in '81 and '82 it wasn't such an easy thing to do especially when you have record label deadlines. So its possible Randy and/or Max missed them or maybe they did hear them but figured they were so minor that it wasn't worth the effort to re-record a track to fix two or three 16th note flubs. That's a nice catch though. Also, if you listen to the first runs of the solos to both Crowley and Believer they are the same exact licks except different keys.

[guitarsteve]

Another thing too I might add is when I mentioned deadlines, you gotta consider that BOO wasn't under deadline for a record company at that moment but they had a limited budget and studio time is money. But by the time DOAM was in progress the opposite was the case. I think its been mentioned that Randy didn't get to spend as much time on his solos for that record as he would've liked. I think Little Dolls didn't get but a single tracked solo for example. And to me if someone tries to get everything so pristine and picture perfect it kinda sucks the life and raw energy and emotion out of the music. That's why most modern music cant hold a candle to the music from that era... just my opinion anyway.

[mojopin70]

Yeah Steve i agree man, i know Rhoads wasnt around for the mixing of Diary and i read that his demo solos on that album were going to be overdubbed later but it never happened and they ended up using his early takes, thats a shame although the album sounds as complete as any rock album could be ...

[guitarsteve]

Ya know I just happened to listen to Diary on a roadtrip all the way through yesterday (the original Jet version) and it still sounds as fresh to my ears as it did the first time I heard it... and to prove the point I didn't know some of the solos were demos... news to me...wish my "demo" stuff sounded that solid.

[Shockwave]

I'll give these a listen within a week or two. I bought my son a really nice set of headphones for Christmas(not beats lol) for around $300 and I will tell you what. Holy crap! Its like you have never heard what your listening to before.

Anyway, even with my crappy headphones I hear a few things here and there during solos where things are different, not so much him playing different parts but just not in sync like he was just a tad off. Off the top of my head Crazy Train has a couple parts like this in the solo. Also in Crazy Train where randy is doing the trill part on the high E (17-14-17-14..ect) he hits the muffled G string. He did this live also which seemingly was every time, not very noticeable but its always there

[mojopin70]

Hi Shockwave yes interesting you should say that ive noticed that too.....i wonder whether he shouldve bothered overdubbing his solos at all ? I think they wouldve sounded just as good if not better, some of his solos seem too dry in the mix in certain songs like " Over the Mountain" but since i read they were his " demo" solos for the album and they werent around for the mix of Diary i guess we can ignore that?.. I thought his live sound was much better, meatier.When i listen to " Mr Crowley" the studio version rhythm track always bugged me because it seems like a 70s flaky slightly overdriven tone, then the solo sounds almost like distortion /fuzz ( The MXR distortion apparently can sound fuzzy) But " Steal Away the Night " and say " Flying High Again" seemed to have a much better tone , it makes you wonder when he had so many options for sounds that he managed to get a naff guitar sound on certain tracks?

[mojopin70]

Hi Steve have a look at this ....

Overview

Diary of a Madman is the final album recorded by guitarist Randy Rhoads, who perished in an airplane crash in early 1982. It also represents drummer Lee Kerslake's final appearance with Osbourne. Although bassist Rudy Sarzo and drummer Tommy Aldridge are credited in the liner notes and pictured on the inner sleeve, it was bassist Bob Daisley and drummer Kerslake who performed all bass and drum parts on the original release. Daisley also provided significant contributions to the album's songwriting, having written some of the music and most of the lyrics. The duo were not given credit for their performance or songwriting contributions, a situation which resulted in a later lawsuit. According to a 2005 interview with Daisley, although Don Airey is credited as keyboardist on the album, it was in fact a musician named Johnny Cook (who had worked with Daisley in Mungo Jerry in the 1970s) who actually recorded the keyboard parts, as Airey was on tour as a member of Rainbow at the time and was thus unavailable.[2]

Although Rhoad's classically inspired lead guitar work on the album has been widely praised, most of the guitar work was unfinished and not intended to be released. Basic "demo" solos were recorded with the intention of overdubbing the final guitar parts later. Due to studio time constraints, the guitar tracks were left as is.

[guitarsteve]

Wow. I knew about all the credits except Jerry Cook. I knew Don Airey was the touring keyboardist but didn't know who recorded on the albums. For sure Ozzy was fortunate to have Randy, Bob, Lee and Jerry Cook in his band. Otherwise BOO wouldn't have had near as big of an impact as we know it

[hansolo]

It's Johnny Cook that played piano. Years ago, I had a debate or argument going with this guy. He said, "The drummer on Diary isn't Lee, I read somewhere that they used a session guy, bla, blah." I then singled out the drum track from Crazy train which contains the OTM drum fill at the end of the CT solo before the verse. Even the 1980's shows (Chelmsford) had Lee playing that figure in his drum solo. Anyway, the solo to little dolls is a guide, demo or dummy solo as Randy called it. Other then that, I'm not sure what other songs could be considered unfinished. I don't like to give this away but Randy LOVED the 2/3 guitars slightly off (pitch) in the mix sound. I have messed around with it. Even live he always did these slight bends which resolved to the key/chord note. During the Diary tour (see Kalamazoo '82) he had a delay set that was slightly delayed that he would kick on and then do a phrase and then (sometimes) a slow resolving bend that has this weird effect (delayed resolve). Re;Revelation solo - It could be a mistake or planned but I can't answer it for Randy. Also, when it comes to recording, vibe is more important than playing it perfectly like you hear in your head. If you play it back and it fits, at least keep a copy. You can record for days but if it doesn't capture the mood or during the final take you hate it and want to just get through with it, it will sound like it.
There is a weird F up in ALL versions of the BOO/goodbye to romance at around :50 right after the line "goodbye to friends" it sounds like a punch in or tape splice. When I got the CD I noticed it and thought it was a digital flaw but it's on all copies. It's like the squeaky bass pedal in Since I've been loving you...

[guitarsteve]

Hey Hans... I meant Johnny... typo... anyway I agree with you on not playing everything just so perfect. There's video of Dimebag... not sure which Dvd its on (Dimevision I think)... anyway, hes videotaping himself in the mirror giving his thoughts on the subject and its the same gist.

[sytharnia]

I think the "ran out of time in the studio so a lot of the solo's are demos" gets a bit over stated as time rolls on.......i'm pretty sure only little dolls was the demo solo's, randy did say he would have liked more time to come up with stuff but he said if he could come up with ideas he would just play something weird...so not a scratch solo, just a weird solo

[hansolo]

Cool. Yeah, I always thought the LD solo was lacking "something" but still one of the greatest album's ever. Just to clarify my comments, the tuning isn't off on the guitars but bending, varying the pitch with ones fingers (or vibrato) or delivery of the notes slightly different, etc.