why didn't RANDY DIDN'T GO "FLOYD" ON THE PDV???

[blues_n_cues]

in that period of '79 the floyd was still a garage thing w/out a lock nut..
we all knew the limitations of the fender bar back then & played accordiongly..
thats it..it was good for a 'warble" or change guitar after that song.- Randy did this often...the key to a FENDER STYLE TREM.. was to "whap" the bar on the last note...the reason Randy & many other players didn't go w/ the original floating Floyd was because of the lack of sustain, plus Floyd @ the time -it was a garage thing..

1/2 the point of the floating floyd was raising the pitch... Karl & I just talked about this... it's like a pitch wheel on a keyboard...
whats the point of a floating up 1 full note pitch if you have a stop block.. useless then you don't really know how to use a floyd...

i tune standard A440 & can raise my GHS Boomer '10's up from f# up to a G.......on the 12th fret high e w/out breaking....

[thepolkadots]

i don't understand what the point is that you are making regarding raising the pitch? etc

[blues_n_cues]

i don't understand what the point is that you are making regarding raising the pitch? etc

talking about blocked floyds... i like to raise the pitch- like a pitchwheel on a keyboard..
a woodblock to make sustain under the ass end of the bar negates that so you might as well have a body mounted fender trem.

for idiot terms- a floating floyd trem tuned to A 440- you should be able to raise the A string 1 whole step(A TO B) w/out breaking the string....

it doiesn't really matter what you do- you break a string during a song- the whole guitar is out of tune & worthless...

a fender trem- break a string- the rest of the guitar is still in tune- but you can't go crazy w/ the bar.

that make sense ?

[blues_n_cues]

i don't understand what the point is that you are making regarding raising the pitch? etc

pulling up on the bar to raise the pitch f a note.
most new guitarists glue a block of wood under the ass end of the bar to rest on to make mosre sustain out of the body..
that negates the whole purpose of a floating trem- being able to raise or lower pitch of a given note- even though you sacrifice sustain w/ said tremolo.

you just need to go play multiple guitars through the same amp w/ the same setting to get what i'm saying.

[thepolkadots]

So did Randy ever use the tremelo bar to bend pitch up? I don't recall ever hearing him do that.

I only know of him diving the pitch down and then bringing it back up.

[blues_n_cues]

So did Randy ever use the tremelo bar to bend pitch up? I don't recall ever hearing him do that.

I only know of him diving the pitch down and then bringing it back up.

NOPE- it wasn't done or possible @ the time. me & Karl were talking what was available in '79- it was a fender trem & you played around it's limitations...
Eddie had a garage proto version of the floyd on VH2 and even then it didn't have a locking nut & sucked...

if ya ever noticed on Randy tribute "over the mountain" or 'FLYING HIGH AGAIN"-he changed guitars after that song & after the solo of flying high again- the guitar was out of tune on the open G chord- a common problem w/ fender trems...
ya just whack the thing...

the fender type trem was flush mount on the body & better for vibrato & sligh bend. pulling up in pitch wasnot really an options.

[Solos]

So did Randy ever use the tremelo bar to bend pitch up? I don't recall ever hearing him do that.

I only know of him diving the pitch down and then bringing it back up.

NOPE- it wasn't done or possible @ the time. me & Karl were talking what was available in '79- it was a fender trem & you played around it's limitations...
Eddie had a garage proto version of the floyd on VH2 and even then it didn't have a locking nut & sucked...

if ya ever noticed on Randy tribute "over the mountain" or 'FLYING HIGH AGAIN"-he changed guitars after that song & after the solo of flying high again- the guitar was out of tune on the open G chord- a common problem w/ fender trems...
ya just whack the thing...

the fender type trem was flush mount on the body & better for vibrato & sligh bend. pulling up in pitch wasnot really an options.

How was pulling up on the trem "not possible" in 1979? The recommended setup of a traditional six screw Fender style trem is to have the baseplate at a slight angle so the rear of it is approximately 1/8 th of an inch off the body. People may pull the thing all the way down to the body but that is their choice... and not a good one IMO. The affect on sustain is minimal. Besides, if you dive the trem, the strings will most likely get hung up at the nut, causing the strings to go slightly flat. Beling able to pull back a bit on the trem allows the player to release the hung up string. Also, a properly setup "traditional" style trem will hold tune well even under abuse... Just don't push the bar all the way down to the body. As for Randy pulling back on his trem, watch the After Hours version of Suicide Solution. He does it during the solo. It just doesn't have the same range as a modern rear routed system.


Also, Floyd Rose Trems have never been available without the option of having a locking nut. That was the first problem Floyd tackled when he first designed the system... The VH2 guitar always had one. Eddie just didn't like the tone of the guitar that's way it didn't stick.

And the type of bridge is not the only reason for a guitar to sound thin or lack sustain. The quality of the wood is probably the most important factor. I've had Floyded guitars that sustained for days and Les Paul style guitars that sounded dead.

[sik_kreations]

what do u guys refer to on the vh2 guitar? versus the vh1?

[Solos]

The VH2 (black and yellow) was a Charvel with a factory Floyd Rose trem and locking nut. The VH1 (black and white) were second hand Charvel parts Eddie purchased from the factory and put together himself. It had a 60's era Fender trem and brass nut.

Interestingly, Yngwie uses a brass nut as well on his guitars.

[sik_kreations]

The VH2 (black and yellow) was a Charvel with a factory Floyd Rose trem and locking nut. The VH1 (black and white) were second hand Charvel parts Eddie purchased from the factory and put together himself. It had a 60's era Fender trem and brass nut.

Interestingly, Yngwie uses a brass nut as well on his guitars.

just checking... i thought u were guna say the black and white partscaster was a different guitar then the red/white/black.. frankenstein when in fact they are the same guitar..

the black and yellow one is buried with dime.. rip.

[Solos]

The VH2 (black and yellow) was a Charvel with a factory Floyd Rose trem and locking nut. The VH1 (black and white) were second hand Charvel parts Eddie purchased from the factory and put together himself. It had a 60's era Fender trem and brass nut.

Interestingly, Yngwie uses a brass nut as well on his guitars.

just checking... i thought u were guna say the black and white partscaster was a different guitar then the red/white/black.. frankenstein when in fact they are the same guitar..

the black and yellow one is buried with dime.. rip.

Yep, the red, black, and white is the VH1 guitar, just with red paint and an added Floyd. He also put a Kramer neck on it later on.

[My96z]

I never knew EVH did that. That was really cool and classy of him to do so.

[tedeeoo]

If I am not mistaken, Brad Gillis has always preferred the original Floyd Rose tremelos (and we all know how Brad uses a trem!) and I remember seeing an interview with him where he said he never had any tuning issues with them. He also says that the Floyd in his red Strat was the third one Floyd built in that first batch that was built in Floyd's garage (I believe EVH had one of the first two) and that it has a locking nut.He said that the first batch of trems that Floyd built did not have fine tuners and that they were much better than the ones that came later because the metal was of better quality and specifically he said the metal was harder. Not sure on this, but doesn't Jeff Beck use a standard Fender trem? If so, that in itself says alot for the stability of that unit, I've always heard guys that really knew how to use that (Fender) unit say that if it was set-up properly it would not go out of tune. Brass nuts are cool on both Trem-equipped guitars and hard-tails, Jake had one in his white Fender/Charvel as well as the blue and purple Charvels also I believe. Cool stuff, love talking about guitar stuff!!

[Solos]

If I am not mistaken, Brad Gillis has always preferred the original Floyd Rose tremelos (and we all know how Brad uses a trem!) and I remember seeing an interview with him where he said he never had any tuning issues with them. He also says that the Floyd in his red Strat was the third one Floyd built in that first batch that was built in Floyd's garage (I believe EVH had one of the first two) and that it has a locking nut.He said that the first batch of trems that Floyd built did not have fine tuners and that they were much better than the ones that came later because the metal was of better quality and specifically he said the metal was harder. Not sure on this, but doesn't Jeff Beck use a standard Fender trem? If so, that in itself says alot for the stability of that unit, I've always heard guys that really knew how to use that (Fender) unit say that if it was set-up properly it would not go out of tune. Brass nuts are cool on both Trem-equipped guitars and hard-tails, Jake had one in his white Fender/Charvel as well as the blue and purple Charvels also I believe. Cool stuff, love talking about guitar stuff!!

Yep, Beck uses the old style trems, but I believe he has the newer two point vintage trem and a roller nut (or the wilkinson trem nut) on his guitars. I had an USA deluxe strat with that setup and it works very well. As long as you're not trying to be Vai you're fine. Before Floyds and Kahlers, you HAD to make the technology work. It wasn't perfect but if the guitar was setup properly it would do the job. Randy, EVH, SRV, Blackmore, Uli Roth, Beck... I could go on and on. It worked well enough for them. As for Randy not using a locking trem, well, I think it was just a matter of a busy touring schedule and the simple fact that he was only in the "spotlight" for two years. I just think he never had time to get around to trying it. He makes some references to the Kahler at the seminar that was recorded, so you never know. I'll bet he would've started experimenting with them before the end of 1982 had he lived.

[blues_n_cues]

when i referred to the "pulling up" on a fender type trem i meant pulling up 1/2-1 whole step like the reverse divebomb. it wasn't possible before the floating trem then vai went on to recess the body under the trem.

i misspoke about the locking nut-it was the fine tuners i meant & yeah,eddie had the 1st floyd from the garage.
there's an old guitar world issue w/ an interview w/ floyd & eddie(fron an old NAMM show) about the invention of the FR trem.

i'm just saying what the man told me.
there's also an interview w/ randy or grover jackson that said the black LTD.was a hartail because Randy was trying to get away from using the trem. we'll never know.
i think a trem was a novelty for Randy as he surely didn't have to rely on one w/ all his knowledge.