Paul Wolfe wrote:
But ultimately, I do believe Randy was very talented, but if he was genius, I've yet to here it. He was on the cutting edge, but others were close enough behind that it's hard to believe that he was the only one onto the classical/metal/modes thing...
I think talent is the optimum word, I've spent a lot of time studying music theory and im willing to bet i know a lot more than the average guy. But am i good at writing songs? Hell no, im shit!
I think Randy probably knew a considerable amount about music, evidence of that is in the cadences and modes etc... in his music. But scince and art are different things. Randy imo needed more time to learn how to craft his knowledge into actual music. It may even have inhibited him
I mean i could read a book on how a car works and memorise it, but could a then go and build a car? im not so sure... I like to think of Randy as a very talented musical scientist who had not yet realised his creative potential.
Good post RR-EA , I too think the Diary Of A Madman track is head & shoulders above the rest of the songs in terms of composition and arrangement , Louis Clark did the strings arrangement and i would think the band ie: Rhoads , Lee , Daisley did the overall song arrangement .. collectively it's a genius piece of work but it is a sum of all it's parts and perhaps the culmination of a band that had worked thier asses off for the past couple years and were truly on the same page ... if in fact the track was the last recorded by the band ?? If anyone knows the studio recording sequence in which the tracks were put to tape , I'd love to know .
Cpt Matt Sparrow wrote:Mozart wrote his first pieces as a toddler, dictated music 'from his head' with no effort, and by the tme he was a teenager had toured extensively, written symphonies, concertos and operas. Of course Mozart was very rare, and a genius, in the true sense of the word.
you know ... I'm not so sure that what Mozart wrote at age 5(or 6?)
was very listenable.
I always heard that Mozart wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star when he was that age. Besides, listenable or not, he was touring Europe at this point, playing for a lot of people.
Hey Matt Sparrow nice to meet you too. Thanks for the comment Flying Dutchman. I have enjoyed this site for quite a while now so I guess I figured it was time to join in somewhere. I don't always word things so well though. Cool Thread
There were definitely much better guitar players, electric rock guitar players, that were out there on the scene when Randy was making heads turn, no doubt about it. I'll name two, Uli Roth and Al DiMeola. These guys were on a different level in the technique of their playing, far above Randy's playing ability but I feel that Randy was going to that level of dedication to the instrument once he had finished his contract out with Ozzy. I feel Randy achieved what he came to know what a real rockstar was and he needed to move on with his music and technique.
Now I don't know if it is creative genius or something else entirely but Randy stood almost alone in being able to convey some type of emotional output directly into what he was playing. I can count on one hand the number of guitar players whose playing has given me goosebumps. Fewer even when their playing can give me goosebumps after years of listening to the same songs countless times. Randy's work on DOAM and Tribute can still stop me, awestruck and connected to what's going on and that is unique. To me anyways. His soul, if you will, really IS in his recorded work. It's a funny thing but like with the outro solo on the song Tonight, you can close your eyes and get lost in what he was playing as it fades out, like you were in the control room with him or whatever. That is why Randy Rhoads is who he is and what he is to the world today. He and the music were one entity.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
Very true indeed Mike, tonight takes me to a very private place and still bring levels of emotion every time I hear it. I can feel the goose bumps and sadness in equal messure.
Same goes fo Diary of a Madman when that song ends I feel deep loss, last December when I returned home after a few days in Flanders, part of the drive takes you over where the trenches were that were used during WWI (the great war 1914-1918) that war was sp pointless and wasted so many inocent your lives for a reason that I staill can't fathom. With all this racing around my head I put the track 'Diary of a Madman' on the car CD player.
I can't begin to tell you how I felt driving across a landscape that saw so much death, thinking about all the hopes that were dashed, remembering the stories of those football games in no mans land during the christmas truce in 1914 and the hopes and fellowship that were created and smashed, it was also about 2 days before christmas as I drove, this was added to by thinking of a young RR wgo was lost soon after creating this masterpiece. Everything became so intense at this moment because a setting sun gave an odd orange glow and the ground was so damp that it was covered in a mist that floated about 6 inches above the ground,it was so spooky and gloomy that the place and the music merged.
After the 'Diary' ended I was so emotionaly tired that I drove in silence trying to come to terms with all I had felt during that brief five minutes in a place that was hell on earth for so many powerless young men.
I had wanted to mention this before but your post made it possible Mike, it really set the stage to explain it in context, I think that these feeling could only feel the way they did because of the horror of the location the time of day and the emotion and genius of the music, every line and note fitted the horror of what happened there 90 years earlier.
Cologne she'll wear silver and americard, She'll drive a beetle car and beat you down at cool Canasta. And when the clothes are strewn don't be afraid of the room touch the fullness of her breast feel the love of her caress she will be your living end.
Trigger wrote:
I had wanted to mention this before but your post made it possible Mike, it really set the stage to explain it in context, I think that these feeling could only feel the way they did because of the horror of the location the time of day and the emotion and genius of the music, every line and note fitted the horror of what happened there 90 years earlier.
I wanted to get to this earlier, just kind of spaced it, sorry Ian. Music and it's ability to paint images and moodscapes within the mind is, to me, a gift I often take for granted. I use to think music did the same to everyone. Today I think it must be an almost unique thing for everyone, when they listen to music. Ranging from something one needs in the background to dull the noises from their work environment to causing complete emotional overload that could be compared to what you'd call a "religious expierence". lol Thanks for sharing your story and I always find it uplifting when someone can explain those kinds of events in their life.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
Paul Wolfe wrote:He was on the cutting edge, but others were close enough behind that it's hard to believe that he was the only one onto the classical/metal/modes thing...
This is a very important statement. What made Randy stand out - in my opinion - is that he was very focused on the song instead of the solo. His solo's are like a song within a song and tell their own story. This is precisely why I can listen to Randy's playing for hours on end, while I can only stand to listen to Yngwie in small, limited doses. Yngwie is definitely miles ahead of Randy in terms of technique, but lacks the ability to compose memorable, coherant songs.
To me, Randy fits more into a category of players such as Brian May - outstanding players who are true musicians as opposed to guitarists. With these guys, their ego takes a back seat to the song - which is what makes them so special. Brilliant - yes. Genius - I'm not so sure.
Last edited by gtraddict on Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Wolfe wrote:He was on the cutting edge, but others were close enough behind that it's hard to believe that he was the only one onto the classical/metal/modes thing...
This is a very important statement. What made Randy stand out - in my opinion - is that he was very focused on the song instead of the solo. His solo's are like a song within a song and tell their own story. This is precisely why I can listen to Randy's playing for hours on end, while I can only stand to listen to Yngwie in small, limited doses. Yngwie is definitely miles ahead of Randy in terms of technique, but lacks the ability to compose memorable, coherant songs.
To me, Randy fits more into a category of players such as Brian May - outstanding players who are true musicians as opposed to guitarists. With these guys, their ego takes a back seat to the song - which is what makes them so special. Brilliant - yes. Genius - I'm not so sure.
Welcome to UR and a great observation. There are a few of us here who also see the similarity between Brian May and Randy.
Matt
Having a break from online activity for a while to concentrate on music. Please email if you need to get in touch. Matt
Albert Einstein used to play violin to relax, sometimes he would play with other musicians. Brian May has a degree is something like 'astrophysics'.
Some genius's are creative, yet hardly any creative people are considered by the general public or specialized critics as being a pure genius.
I think the recently passed Les Paul was an industrious genius just like Thomas Edison. Moreover, Les Paul pioneered many guitar styles to boot.
We can call a great musician a "genius" as a figure-of-speech. Beethoven, even if you do not like classical symphony's, was probably as close to an musical emotional genius as we have heard so far.
I use the term genius loosely for musicians... it's just a good way to categorize them and their specific level of talent.
But I don't think a musician can ever be considered a genius in the literal sense of the word.
Mozart was not a genius, he was a prodigy. He still had to learn to apply his talents.
A genius is someone who creates, invents or discovers through the process of mind something that has never existed before and has to be unique to that individual time and moment.
Leanardo Da Vinci was a Genius.
Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Michaelangelo, Socrates, Nikolai Tesla, Alexander Graham Bell, Capernicus... these were genius minds. I would even consider Charlie Chaplin on that level. Steve Jobs was a genius in business, Ford a genius at industrilization.... Adolf Hitler was a political genius ... although also a maniac. They were capable of the things they did naturally without specifically learning or training. Although adaption can be a factor.
Anyone can learn to play an instrument... to be a genius in that capacity would mean you could write, compose music without ever having played a note on an instrument.
A musician is creating... expressing emotions through sound.
It can be spectacular and "musically genius" but the context is not the same.
They haven't altered the course of human perception or history.
One could argue however that Mozart may be the epitome of the term "genius" if musicians were to be labeled as such.
In which case a long list of names like Beethoven Bach, Wagner, Vivaldi, Smetena etc would apply long before todays musicians came close to that term... and personally I would place HENDRIX first... before any and all other guitarists.
That man singlehandedly changed the course of the intstrument like no other.
Would it apply to Randy... not sure.
I would call Randy a possible prodigy of the instrument before I called him genius.
Geez Scratch, do you have to be so profound and write so intelligently in every post!
You made some very good points, thanks for contributing... I had to go back a read what I'd posted since my last comment in this thread was in 2009! It's fun reviewing some of the older stuff here, thank you for digging this one up.
Cool Thread
