Very Sad News

[tedeeoo]

I was told yesterday by one of my friends at Peavey (and one who would definately know), that as of this Friday all of Peavey's guitars will be "Made in China". I grew up with Peavey and from day one their biggest marketing tool has been "Proudly Designed and Made in the U.S.A., now I understand economics and recessions and all that stuff, but Peavey has always been a brand that was still made here in the states at a price that most people didn't mind paying. I don't want to speculate on Hartley's motives or say anything bad about the man, but at some point you take the easy way or the hard way, I guess to Hartley the easy way was China and lower production cost. What it means to me, a lifelong Peavey user is that alot of people I know will be losing their jobs and that the next time I need or want an amp or guitar, it won't say Peavey on it.

[rice_pudding]

The mass shift of production to china is a worrying trend, many brands are moving korean production gradually out to china and you have to wonder at the point. Chinese production standards will improve with time but moving your entire production line to another country doesn't make sense to me. If your product is good enough it will demand a better price.

This is only really a short term solution anyway.

Japanese instruments used to be the major alternative to US production, but in recent years rising costs have put the price of these instruments up to that of US standards, luckily the quality is also comparable.

Korean factories have over the years got better and better at making guitars but as soon as the overheads go up everyone ships out to china.

the chinese instruments will get better and better and one day a chinese guitar will cost as much as an American one... OR... companies will have to find another economy to exploit.

On a side note this is bad for the US economy but also bad for the Koreans really.

Rob

[Livewire8195]

My first guitar was a Peavey. Sad news, hopefully won't hurt anything about the guitars though.

[tedeeoo]

If their amplifiers are any indication, the components and construction quality will suffer. But to me the biggest thing is that Peavey will lose their biggest marketing tool which is "Proudly Designed and Made in the U.S.A., that's really their only marketing tool as they have always been very weak in their marketing. There are hundreds of their products that died simply because they were not presented to the buyer in an appropriate way. Of course from an American perspective, the big thing is the loss of more manufacturing jobs to China, in no way can I see any benefit to shipping more jobs overseas and me personally, I'd rather buy American. I've already read that many companies are already looking to Vietnam as the next source of "cheap" labor as production cost are rising in China. It just really saddens me to lose a big part of a Mississippi company that I grew up on to pure greed.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Hi Ted

Firstly I am sorry you are sad and cheers to you fellow Randy Rhaods fan.

My view on this is the same as when Cadbury's, a traditional British chocolate making company, got sold to Kraft, an American one. My view being, that it is progress and business. Things change and go through 'dips' and plateaus and in history super power status has changed hands many a time but life all still keeps a rolling.

I haven't a problem with China and from a guitar perspective I can say hand on heart that my £900 Ibanez Chinese madeSteve Vai Acoustic, is up there in quality with my British made Classical that costs six times as much!
At the Gibson forums there is tremendous fear and prejudice towards China, a lot I think to do with feeling intimidated that a 'commie' foreign country is going to over take them.
I can't deny the idea of some of those racist xenophobes being aghast at this news makes me smile.

But at the same time I find change hard and can sympathise

Matt

ps Have owned a Peavey Backstage Plus, A Bandit and currently own a Peavey all valve JSX Satriani head. I will watch their progress interested.

[tedeeoo]

For my part it has nothing to do with fear or prejudice of/for China, it is more to do with the fact that those jobs will more than likely never come back to the U.S.A. and more specifically to Mississippi. An economy can only sustain so many losses to it's job market and we (U.S.) are not in the best shape right now in that regard. Plus, I know firsthand that Peavey could have done things different and kept those jobs here. Peavey was/is a company that Mississippi has been proud to call it's own, but I guess it's just business, as they say, to Hartley.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Ted

You come across as such a compassionate and decent man I wasn't for one minute meaning yourself as being prejudice. I agree that it is sad in these kind of situations too.

I was talking to someone tonight about football and it is sad how many things like football and music still don't over ride some peoples desire for money as a priority opposed to the subject in question.

The times they are a changin!

Matt

[tedeeoo]

Matt,

In no way did I mean to insinuate that you were saying anything to that effect about me, please accept my apology for sounding like I did. I completely agree with you, the times are changing, sometimes I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Again, please accept my apologies.

Ted

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Cheers (clink of glass)

you sounded fine my friend

Matt

[ptate]

I'm going to put my "boss" hat on for this .

Peavey, as the example, are a business and it really is nothing personal; money wins, hands down .

I, personally, suffer a great deal from half-arsed staff, with a lackasdaisical attitude to instruction and a woeful sickness/union/human rights/anything else to make it difficult record...UK's great for that..!! Human resources, legislation, litigation, taxes, rights and poor governance is to blame for the move to other countries who have less economic or social baggage.

Peavey are just one in a long line of industries that understand that they can procure goods and services, far better at times, than their traditional sources, for less and with less hassle.

In terms of sales, as Cap'n Matt says, most people will buy whatever they like, especially if it is stylish, cost effective and arrives at the right time; irrespective of the country of origin.

We live in a global economy (so we're told) and businesses will source outside their country of origin, if it means they can survive or profit from it...!! Occasionally (in terms of instrument sales) they may set up a custom arm for "origin" made instruments, but that is often when the industry/economy stabilises and finance is not as much of an issue - who knows?

At the end of the day, Peavey should have a QA system in place which means their products don't suffer. Maybe they'll return to the USA one day, when the government realises that it has to reduce policy and the financial suffering on business just to beat recession, help it's people and progress as a nation.

Hat off now, brain out........ Back to guitar......aaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

[tedeeoo]

As I stated earlier, I understand economics, business, etc. My opinions on this this subject are purely my opinions, yes, it is somewhat personal to me, I know alot of people that will be affected by this decision and Peavey has been a part of my life for going on 29 years now and as I said, they have always proudly been "Designed and Made in the U.S.A.", more specifically their guitars had until recently, always been built right here in Mississippi. I disagree with the whole "we can build it cheaper here" argument, especially in Peavey's case, their hallmark has always been that they built exceptional quality gear at a price that everyone could afford, and they have always done it right here at home (U.S.),. Like I said in an earlier post, it has nothing to do with quality, at some point people have to realize that a nation (any nation) cannot sustain a continuous loss of jobs in any sector, if your job market doesn't have balance among all sectors, eventually your economy will suffer, the U.S. is seeing that now. At the end of the day, it is ultimately Hartley Peavey who makes the decision on what his company does, and he has taken the fast way out here. Peavey has done alot of innovative things in their history, it would have been nice to have seen them be a true innovator and show American businesses how to prosper and still keep jobs at home, I think Peavey could have done that. As far as how government policy plays into business both here and abroad, that's a whole other discussion. And again, this is all just my opinion, I'll still be playing one of my Peavey Vandenberg Customs when I get through working tonight, and I'll still be playing all my other Peavey gear until I get ready for something else, then we'll see.

[Paul Wolfe]

I don't think the issue has to do with race or lack of quality workers, the issue is that the Chinese workers will work for less money than the American workers because the cost of living in the United States is outrageously overpriced. The US economy keeps faltering because the rich businessman cannot ever accept that he has enough money. He always needs more, so he will cut the heart out of the United States by taking his industry overseas to save a buck. This results in American workers being laid off and unable to pay their bills, let alone buy the products that Mr. Rich Businessman is producing outside the country.

Peavey is one in a long line of companies doing this and the United states is reaping the results. I'm sure the Chinese are capable of building a quality guitar, but the average American won't be able to afford it soon because he won't have a job.

[tedeeoo]

I don't think the issue has to do with race or lack of quality workers, the issue is that the Chinese workers will work for less money than the American workers because the cost of living in the United States is outrageously overpriced. The US economy keeps faltering because the rich businessman cannot ever accept that he has enough money. He always needs more, so he will cut the heart out of the United States by taking his industry overseas to save a buck. This results in American workers being laid off and unable to pay their bills, let alone buy the products that Mr. Rich Businessman is producing outside the country.

Peavey is one in a long line of companies doing this and the United states is reaping the results. I'm sure the Chinese are capable of building a quality guitar, but the average American won't be able to afford it soon because he won't have a job.

Extremely well put Paul.

[ptate]

Hi Tedeeoo. I wasn't insinuating that you don't know your stuff, so accept my apologies if I've offended you.

I have owned Peavey guitars and they have been great instruments for very little cash, so I concur with the production statement. But the bigger picture means the company has to cover itself against the recession, by increasing profitability, which means more development monies and more security. Unfortunately, this means a paradigm shift in the management process and way production takes place, resulting in the reallocation of risk to external suppliers and reduced capital expenditure. Designed and built in the USA will only pay so much, especially if your overheads are going up annually.

At least your country has a decent leader now (it appears); we have (to quote one of our comedians) a Prime Minister who looks like "a face drawn on a scrotum", he acts pretty much like that too. The UK may as well bend over and take it where the sun doesn't shine as we have a weak government. The USA may pretty much recover from recession and rebuilt it's manufacturing industry, but we won't, guarantee it....!

I really do feel for you and the staff who will lose their jobs in Mississippi...It is going to be bleak for those with a rigid trade, especially with little else around.

Paul's comments are a good description of the way business leaders think (their decisions are often a lot tougher than they appear though), but consider it another way; they are only doing what you would do in that position. They all started life (well a lot of them) with an idea which became valuable and meant they could secure both theirs and their families future. In some cases, pretty much forever (Mr Gates?). I would sell out instantly if I could make sure my wife and kids were secure for as long as is humanly possible, irrespective of brand loyalty or workforce issues. As they say, it's business, nothing personal....!

At the end of the day, it is sad that this is happening at Peavey as once gone (the comapny, experienced staff, craftsmen etc.), it is going to be hard to come back.

Once again, I apologise if I upset anyone......

[Paul Wolfe]

The problem I have with the "it's business, not personal" mentality is that the moment you hire someone to work for you it becomes personal because you are now helping that person secure the future of their family. Many - not all - business owners don't care about their employees and do sell out to make a bigger profit. These same employers bitch when the employees are working for a paycheck as opposed to the betterment of the company.

Anything that anyone does which has an effect on someone else's life is personal, to claim otherwise is simply a cop out so you don't haave to feel guilty for screwing people.