Occupy Wall Street

[RR-ElectricAngel]

For those that are wondering, this movement began Sept. 17th of this year when Adbusters, a Canadian activist group, posted this promotional poster in New York.



This is (so far) a leaderless movement without an official set of demands other than protesting social and economic inequality, corporate greed, corruption and influence over government—particularly from the financial services sector—especially from lobbyists. The protesters' slogan is, "We are the 99%." It refers to the difference in wealth and income growth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. So far there are no projected outcomes, no bottom lines and no talking heads. In the Occupy movement "We" are all leaders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street



I expect this to be issue #1 come election time, if it can survive the brutal winter. There is a HUGE resonance with this movement because in the U.S. we currently have (generally speaking) 9% unemplyment rate. I would like to know if others feel like I do that this was not only inevitable but marks the End Of Days for Capitalism.

[Paul Wolfe]

For about 10 years I've been saying that it's only a matter of time until there is a revolution in the United States. The "rich" - elite - whatever you want to call them - are out of control. When price rise on whims rather than actual supply and demand... when a man in Washington state tries to get a hotel room in a snowstorm, a room advertised at $50 and is charged 3x that because "there is more demand in a storm"... when people can't get jobs that make ends meet because the cost of living is sky high and the 'cost-of-living' wage increase = 30 cents an hour...

Every society in history has eventually run into the same issue, the rich get richer at the expense of the poor, the poor get poorer and poorer until they fight back and level the playing field. Then the cycle starts over.

The question is, is this the beginning of the revolution or is it just the early rumblings that will lead to the revolution down the line?

I'm watching with great interest.

[rice_pudding]

We have a similar movement in the UK, likewise as I'm sure you know there are similar movements all over the world. The media in the UK are taking quite a harsh stance towards the protesters, hardly surprising given the media are all right wing.

I agree with the movements ideals, in reality I think capitalism is just as dumb as communism, and ultimately like many of us I'm pissed off with the insane greed of some people. The Royal Bank of Scotland, recently posted profits of almost £2billion for the last quarter, apparently these margins are not good enough so to reduce cost they are axing 2,000 jobs. WTF! This comes a month after the top corporate bosses in the UK took a rise. In my book if a business can pay all its staff offer a good service and interest on savings and be left with a grubby £10 in profit its doing ok.

I also view the protest with concern. Because in all honesty many people do want a revolution. I know many young people who are "fighting the system", the problem is they don't understand what they're fighting and they wouldn't have a clue of what to replace current government with. Most of them haven't even thought that far ahead! There are some communists, and others vaguely turn to it as the answer. And some anarchists. The rest simply seem to assume we don't actually need an economy to exist as a society. Of course I'm sure there are moderates but revolution is not moderate.

I want drastic change, but I want stability, equality and a modicum of common sense . Revolution is just a whole can of bad, just lays down the pain on someone else.

My only other criticism is that this kind of protest does lead to the people blaming the state for everything and absolving themselves of any sin. Take Spain. I have friends out there who I visited this year. They told me "Spain is great we have the sun, low tax, low rent and great public services". And they wonder why their economy is fucked. Same thing with Italy and Greece. Early retirement, low taxes, great public services = financial black hole. I know you can't blame people for a mountain of bureuocracy they don't understand and poor government. But we are all guilty to some extent of compliance.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but if there was a revolution I think I would take the side of the current establishment?! And probably loose!

Rob

[Paul Wolfe]

I want drastic change, but I want stability, equality and a modicum of common sense . Revolution is just a whole can of bad, just lays down the pain on someone else.

My only other criticism is that this kind of protest does lead to the people blaming the state for everything and absolving themselves of any sin.

I agree with you Rob. It's never black and white... in the States, the politicians are where they are because the voters (or lack thereof) allowed them to get there by being indifferent...

[rice_pudding]

I expect this to be issue #1 come election time, if it can survive the brutal winter. There is a HUGE resonance with this movement because in the U.S. we currently have (generally speaking) 9% unemplyment rate. I would like to know if others feel like I do that this was not only inevitable but marks the End Of Days for Capitalism.

Who knows, the problem with capitalism is that it associates itself with everything that is good about a free market economy. Which is partly why I feel some of my friends think we should all turn communist. To which my ex-soviet comrades say "no thanks"! Even in socialist countries like (arguably) the UK we still have rich buggers!

The real issue is that there will always be politicians and greedy individuals. Politicians are not "leaders" in my mind, just people who seek power. They will always exist, just like greedy people who will seek to exploit whichever system you shackle them with.

We can't just kill these greedy buggers, somehow we have to co-exist. People are sick of the greed but how do you get rid of it? How do you get rid of it fairly, justly? Where would we draw the line? Ultimately some people will (and should) earn more than others. How do you moderate that margin?

Rob

[oth]

Im so glad there is OWS.
Its about time average joes get to vent about how they are getting marginalized for the last 20+years.
From our useless health care fraud system to foreclosures to student loans etc...its frikking immoral how the rich pay the lowest tax rates ever now.The middle class wealth has remained stagnant for 30year while the rich have tripled their wealth.Factor in gas,healthcare costs the mid class is probably losing wealth.
The republicans refused to sign a jobs bill last week that would rebuild our ancient,dangerous infrastructure.This is the party of the rich for the rich.Its not about country its about class warfare and the rich have won.I opened an acct at a credit union but more importantly applied for a credit card at the credit union as now this not for profit will get all the CC fee revenues i generate instead of my greedy bank.

I would like to see the usa adopt a "HAPPY INDEX" which is what they did in Bhutan.They call it the gross national happy index.And its much more important than GNP/material wealth etc.

[RR-ElectricAngel]

Its not about country its about class warfare and the rich have won.

I "believe" the middle class and those that truly struggle are just now starting to wake up from their drug induced coma. Instead of being distracted by the blame game I think there is a fundamental shift in the perception of those with monetary means. Of course, there are those of status that make fun of them...Bad idea.

View this clip to see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQsqlA3nS1E

And then there are those that want to be President of the United States but don't have a clue as to what their agenda even is or how it will affect others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUA2rDVrmNg

[Paul Wolfe]

Giuliani needs to understand that finding a job is a BIG part of the issue. He's an arrogant putz, he has money and is out of touch just like so many others with money.

I've concluded that wealth induces a form of oblivion. You get to a certain point and you can no longer see reality.

[Trigger]

At least averidge educated and aware people in the west are begining to realise that they are getting screwed day in and day out by the banks and financial institutions. I am sceptical this will work but I have no problems if these movements use more agressive tactics in the future after all, her in Britain alone we have borrowed more money (our government) since 2009 than every other government combined since 1066.
It is long overdue that we demand and recieve more from our tax's than propping up dishonest corrupt bankers and investment brokers, if they are determined to fuck us up! lets get them!

The balance of power in the west is shifting away and when we look at how we have behaved and what we have allowed to be done in our name, it perhaps is a good thing we are running out of money with which we can fuck around with other countries and its populations.

[Paul Wolfe]

From the movie Red Heat... replace 'drug dealer' with 'banker' and replace 'drug addict' with 'stock broker' and we'd have a good start to ending this depression:

Ivan Danko:
Chinese find way. Right after revolution, they round up all drug dealers, all drug addicts, take them to public square, and shoot them in back of head.

Art Ridzik:
Ah, it'd never work here. Fucking politicians wouldn't go for it.

Ivan Danko:
Shoot them first.

[Alex]

xx123456

[oth]

I've concluded that wealth induces a form of oblivion. You get to a certain point and you can no longer see reality.

Yes, its called the stratosphere.This is where the wealthy orbit.They have no clue whats going on down here.

In Malibu all the rich homeowners have fake No Parking signs installed so that the public cant access the beach next to their homes.They also remove signs showing the public accessways to our public beaches.They even hire guards to patrol the beach and intimidate the peons who dare to wander and enjoy the public beach.Let me tell you the majority of Malibu's million/billionaires are very liberal except when it comes to actually having to come into contact with the working class.They also talk about being green but build mega mansions on the beach(destroying it) and then fly around in lear jets.I know first hand.So a billionaires political stripe makes no difference in how they treat everyone below them.
Im all for success but this is about making it at the expense and detriment of the lower class and the country ie:destroying unions,min wage- aka Walmart,Verizon,the airlines,etc...

As for telling these OWS people to get a job, why dont these critics stfu and create some jobs-duh?All these tax cuts for the uber wealthy have produced no jobs.Major malfunction,Houston.

I am liberal and i will not waste my vote on any democrat.I will vote for independant,liberal candidate not associated with Democrats.The 2 party system here is bought and paid for by the elite.Nader was right in 2000.

[Paul Wolfe]

As for telling these OWS people to get a job, why don't these critics stfu and create some jobs-duh?

Amen to that!

[RR-ElectricAngel]

Man...That was really the worst thing you could do to unarmed and passive protesters. It won't be long now...



Pepper spraying of Occupy protesters at UC Davis caught on video

Published: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 3:27 PM by the Star-Ledger Continuous News Desk

SAN FRANCISCO — Occupy Wall Street protesters at the University of California's Davis campus were pepper-sprayed by a police officer while they were apparently sitting passively on the ground with locked arms, according to an Associated Press article.

A video of the incident, which was posted on YouTube, was recorded Friday as police attempted to move in on more than a dozen tents erected on the university campus. The article said 10 people were arrested, nine of them students.

In the video, posted below, a police officer displays a bottle before spraying its contents on the seated protesters. While it appears most of the protesters have their heads down, the video shows that at least one person is hit with the spray directly in the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnR7xET ... r_embedded

[rice_pudding]

It will be interesting to see how the police response develops over time, it's the surest indicator of whether or not the state is getting scared. If there is ever to be a tipping point it will be when a protester gets killed. The comments were interesting to read, quite a divergence in opinion. One fascinating comment;

The govt store is Walmart. like the old GUM store in USSR. one store., that has run small businesses out .

I didn't agree with the rest of what this guy/gal said, but that is something I can see eye to eye with.

BTW it feels like this thread is missing something, like a guy to come along and flame pictures of nuclear ordinance

Rob