shanic wrote:
Paul I’m sorry but that is just insane!!!! Killing is killing and to say that it’s in the name of god?
Re-read my statement and show me where I said anything about killing in the name of God.
I said there are times when killing is necessary. For instance, look at Flight 93 on September 11th, 2001. Passengers on that plane took it upon themselves to kill the hijackers and all the other passengers in an effort to save lives on the ground. Was that justified? Should the men and women who forced the plane into the ground burn in hell for what they did?
What I said is that soldiers are necessary to defend the country they are from. When Hitler chose to run over Europe, soldiers were necessary to stop him. Should every soldier who fought to end the Nazi regime burn in hell?
Last edited by Paul Wolfe on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Paul. First I'd like to say, that - and please do not take this as argumentative - you completely proved my point in the last bit of your post. You feel that you have offended no one, because you see your views and opinions based on your religion as POSITIVE. However, quite a few times you have offended me. It's quid pro quo. Dont assume that "well, sine i am speaking from a christian point of view, i havent offended anyone." There are many things about the Christian faith that I find offensive, namely alot of the things that have been done throughout history in the name of God. More human beings have been murdered, tortured, disfigured, oppressed, imprisoned, etc in the name of God than for any other reason known to man. At the same token, to get back on topic, I feel that my views and beliefs are POSITIVE, therefore i feel that i have said nothing to warrant an appology. So, I guess the question that ia ma asking is who gets to decide which one of us is actually the "offender"? - Can you at least try to understand where i'm going with that?
Thank you very much for at least acknowledging that we did agree on some points in your last post. I appreciate that.
The next thing i wanted to touch on is that you said "I said there are times when killing is necessary. For instance, look at Flight 93 on September 11th, 2001. Passengers on that plane took it upon themselves to kill the hijackers and all the other passengers in an effort to save lives on the ground. Was that justified? Should the men and women who forced the plane into the ground burn in hell for what they did?"
But just earlier in the thread you also stated that Jeffrey Dahmer accepted Christ prior to his demise and therefore, would be forgiven and accepted into heaven. So, that being said, why even bother going to such great lenghts to find cases and examples of instances where there may be the touch of justifiable homicide. According to your religion, it doesnt matter if murder is committed as an act of heroicism or of sexual deviance.
In saying that belief in god and jesus and asking for forgiveness will get you a ticket into heaven, but our actual actions here on earth will not - i think kind of throws your whole "hell" concept out the window. In order to be a good Christian all one has to do is kill, rape, steal, and commit all these horrible acts and than just wipe the slate clean every now and then by asking for fogiveness? Let me guess, Hell is exclusively for us nice epople who raise our children, work hard, lead a good life, yet just don't buy into the whole Christian thing? Fire and brimstone for us, huh. I'm sorry Paul, i'm with the rest of these cats when they say that that just sounds like propaganda used to control the masses.
Church has become big business. I'm sure back in the day of shepherds and togas that it meant so much more.... but then, there probably were't very many Dahmers back then either. lol.
What i CAN appreciate about you, Paul... and frank too, is that i think youa re both genuine. I truly think that you both love your faith and embrace your beliefs and that in your heart of hearts this is truly how you feel. I can respect that.
NicDots wrote:As an atheist, what are your views on after life? Do you believe one exists? Where does the soul go?
A good friend of mine is culturally Jewish, but is an atheist. She believes in no afterlife, no nothing. I asked her what she was going to tell her kids (when she has them) where you go when you die. Her answer was "Good question. I can't really tell them that you rot forever, could I?"
Excellent return question ND!
As most atheists I believe that when you die, life for you is over. Who we are as a person is all biochemical and electrical reactions within the brain. Many documented cases of brain injury shows that the before and after "person" from certain brain trauma are actually separate people. The old person before the accident is gone, never to return and the new person is often times completely different than they were before the injury. To me this is proof enough that the ego is nothing more than biology. With that said I also think death is just as important as birth and in a sense they are mutually exclusive of each other. We achieve immortality, so to speak, through our lineage and also through any achievements we may have accomplished in our lifetime that made a difference in the world. Be those famous or infamous accomplishments. I used to and still kind of do believe in reincarnation in a sense. I just can't conceive not being conscience in some way, somewhere in the universe but this idea doesn't require a soul nor an ego. Einstein's theory of Relativity states matter cannot be created nor destroyed and therefore the energy that my body radiates and takes up in mass gets converted into another state in some way after I die. If I had children I would teach them how important the idea of humanity coming together in peace truly is and how important that idea is for our existence to continue on this planet. I would also instill upon them that we are here for only a certain amount of time and life goes by quicker than you'd think so live it to the fullest and above all, achieve happiness in their life because that is the meaning of life, to be happy.
OH yeah, I would also teach my children that the damage mankind has caused to the earth has now become so great it is now threatening our very existence. So BIG things need to be done and great ideas need to be born if we are to right the wrongs we've done to mother earth or else she'll eventually shake us off like a bad case of fleas.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
"OH yeah, I would also teach my children that the damage mankind has caused to the earth has now become so great it is now threatening our very existence. So BIG things need to be done and great ideas need to be born if we are to right the wrongs we've done to mother earth or else she'll eventually shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
This is almost identical to what i tell my kids. right down to the fleas. you can see it in the weather changes and whatnot... and on a less phsysical or material level, can't you just FEEL it as well? weird.
highpriestess wrote:
i was going to refrain from ever posting an opinion in this thread again, to abstain from having my opinions belittled into verb tenses and capitalization from those who can't handle a dissenting opinion... BUT.... i feel very, very strongly that the post, in it's entirety deserves kudos! if that makes me an "angry person" so fucking be it.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
shanic wrote:
Paul I’m sorry but that is just insane!!!! Killing is killing and to say that it’s in the name of god?
Re-read my statement and show me where I said anything about killing in the name of God.
I said there are times when killing is necessary. For instance, look at Flight 93 on September 11th, 2001. Passengers on that plane took it upon themselves to kill the hijackers and all the other passengers in an effort to save lives on the ground. Was that justified? Should the men and women who forced the plane into the ground burn in hell for what they did?
What I said is that soldiers are necessary to defend the country they are from. When Hitler chose to run over Europe, soldiers were necessary to stop him. Should every soldier who fought to end the Nazi regime burn in hell?
Oh yes the only plain that has every totally disintegrated on impact mmmm.
Yes ok fair call Paul you did not say that killing was in the name of God I totally agree to that but to me it was implied. It’s just the nature of posting on the internet that not all meaning is conveyed to the reader or the reader can not pick up on all the visual and sound clues that we normally use to communicate that makes this medium more should we say challenging. Mind it also makes it a safer place for peoples of differing opinions to communicate.
For instance many of the thoughts and feelings if expressed in public by some of the members here could be considered blasphemies and retribution by believers can be swift and extremely violent in many countries where they will be thinking that it is ok to kill such free thinkers because god will forgive them or that god wills them to. This is not far from the truth watch the news that is why I feel what you posted was so outrageous.
But yes there are times where people indeed need to defend themselves on that I agree.
Should every soldier who fought in the Nazi regime burn in hell?
Last edited by shanic on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Back to my dear old mum (she is old now 76 years old)
She also loves the story of a missionary who was sent to a village in a poor part of India.
He was trying to explain to an elderly man the merits of Christianity and what it involved and the way Jesus lived his life. The man listened patiently and at the end laughed and said "to think I have known him my whole life but I just didn't know his name"
Anyway enough of my old mar. She can be forgetful at the best of time and prone to exagerations...
Okay Mike L.
Yes!! I think your post addressing the biological make up of us and consciousness is not to be (and always is) confused with the soul etc.
As a thought experiment (if we think of the role of a dice as a metaphor ,and think of probability and infinity etc) if the whole world blew up tomorrow, I find the idea even of probability exciting. Replications would occur eventually because infinity by it's nature would produce the correct results as it has infinite chances to do so!
This to my mind is a kind of literal reincarnation.
I think Science and supernatural will merge much more as the years advance.
For example I have always thought that so called ghosts may be slight parallel world glithces that momentarily allow us to see into another dimension..what i am ofcourse refering to is string theory...
Oh sod it!!! I will throw in a biblical quote
"My fathers house has many mansions"
Matt
Having a break from online activity for a while to concentrate on music. Please email if you need to get in touch. Matt
Although i don't believe in the christian interpetation of God, I haven't since I was 7 years old, there was a brief moment
when i was hitting my early teens i needed a form of God in my life, but that disapeared,
I believe out there is some force we do not know waiting for us, I was brought up by my parents to choose
which religion i felt was right for me, i didn't find christianity appealing, but now I feel religions both have their downsides
and upsides, each and every one, no one religion is the superior of all, no matter how many members are in it.
This may seem hypritical, but I now have started wearing a St. Christopher around my neck, why? After the incident with
my luggage, I need some form of protection, I used to practice in wicca and in native craft, but I'm open to all forms of religion,
all I ask, is don't push me, maybe I will find God, but as I stand here, I haven't seen reason to.
People change.. just give them time.
Saying this, I apolegise for any I offended, I am sorry and thank you for reading.
Simon
"A man who aimed to bring his dreams to reality is not a fool, but the man who won't is."
I myself believe in what we call "The big bang" theory. Therefore I also believe everything in the universe is one thing because all matter and energy came from the same thing. So even the big bang theory points towards a common single thing, energy or force that binds all of the universe together. A good friend of mine used to ponder the idea that gravity and love are the same. The force that tries to keep everything together. It's not that strange of an idea, IMO, Macro-laws manifesting into the micro-laws we experience at the human "scale" of things.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
McLowery wrote: A good friend of mine used to ponder the idea that gravity and love are the same. .
Not at all...lots of similarities I think Mike. Your friend sounds very interesting.
I said before the UR wipe that my belief in a supreme is because I simply do not fathom that something, came from nothing!
I do not doubt God or the power of love, compassion etc. However I doubt the Jesus of the Bible as a literal figure becuase of the many, many things that do not add up and also my Godly gut instinct that doesn't think, but feels, like I feel passionately about music and my wife Suzie, that there are reasons for considerable doubt.
Matt
Having a break from online activity for a while to concentrate on music. Please email if you need to get in touch. Matt
Lets all get along and be kick-ass together. I for one am a strong Christian, Roman Catholic to be exact. I get fucking pissed off when people rip on the church, so I have learned to not comment on other's beliefs, even if I think they are a crock of fucking monkey shit. What it comes down to is this: We are all trying to get through our daily lives and have a bit of happiness for ourselves and the ones we care about. If believing in Christ brings you that, then, ALRIGHT FUCKERS, COOL, YOU ARE LIKE ME, but if you get by believing in Budda, A rock, a piece of paper, who cares!!! It is your fucking life and If you do not want Christ in it, who am I to tell you thats wrong. I WILL HOWEVER TELL YOU TO CHECK OUT JESUS & HIS TEACHINGS, He is ONE COOL CAT BABY!!! But that is where I will stop. I will still be friends with you even if you think that Fucking Idiot Marilyn Manson is cool. It just comes down to being Kind, Thoughtful and Respectful to each other. By the Way that is the way of Christ!!!
Okay I need another Beer!!!
Love ya All!!
ROCK ON!!!!
p.s. Excessive swearing does not make you a bad Christian, just makes you sound stupid.
Last edited by Zakk Daniels on Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Work Sucks!! Thats why I am on here reading posts!!
THIS SUMS IT ALL UP FOR ME!! I TRULY BELIEVE THIS!!
GOD BLESS YOU ALL...I MEAN IT.
Footprints
Also Known As "I Had a Dream"
One night I dreamed a dream.
I was walking along the beach with my Lord. Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life. For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand, one belonging to me and one to my Lord.
When the last scene of my life shot before me I looked back at the footprints in the sand. There was only one set of footprints. I realized that this was at the lowest and saddest times of my life. This always bothered me and I questioned the Lord about my dilemma.
"Lord, You told me when I decided to follow You, You would walk and talk with me all the way. But I'm aware that during the most troublesome times of my life there is only one set of footprints. I just don't understand why, when I need You most, You leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you, never, ever, during your trials and testings. When you saw only one set of footprints, It was then that I carried you."
Work Sucks!! Thats why I am on here reading posts!!
Ok here is a sub-topic issue I have always had a problem with: Christian Heavy Metal. Just typing it makes me queezy. To me the idea that there could even be a true metal band that is christian defies the very foundation of what Heavy Metal was built upon, non-conformism, hedonism and attacks towards the establishment. It's a trip. I know people who grew up metalheads and then were born again probably figured, "cool I'll just write metal for the lord" and that is a good thing, any music being created is good. Just thought I'd throw that out there to chew on.
Oh bring me some CHUNKY PUDDING, and bring it RIGHT NOW!!!
