Cryptic Night wrote:
If you hate Eb, you'd absolutely despise what I tune most of my guitars to. (Open C5, from bottom to top is CGCGCC, sometimes I go a half step down from that for live)
christ I wouldn't even know where to put my fingers with that sort of tuning ...... I don't mind the sound of tuning down when others do it (I love carcass and type o) its just when I do I tend to play a certain style of riff that I don't like. I should point out half my guitars are tuned to Eb because of the guys I jam with generally tune to that. When we are playing at a good volume the lower tuning doesn't bother me at all, its more when i'm at home and nitpicking
"Actually, it'd sound the same except for the actually pitch of the notes because the intervals between the notes doesn't change when you de-tune."
Yes, but most people would perceive it as "different" because it is in a different key. Now if someone played 3 songs in a row in Em, that would have the same tension. So what would the keyboard (Ozzy) player do? Sit out certain songs or play something in Eb because for him it's in a different key now, instead of E? Can he tune down to Eb or down a semi-tone? Maybe he has a different st-up?
sytharnia wrote:pretty sure LP and polka V were E and jacksons were Eb
That's what I always heard too. One thing that still puzzles me though, is why he used the LP for Crazy Train live,
when he recorded it with the PDV
I think its because the les Paul would stay in tune for the first 2 songs live
I Don't Know AND crazy train
The PDV is used for mr Crowley right after crazy train
If the PDV is used for crazy train then randy would love to use the whammy and Randy's tech would have to retune the PDV right after crazy train and I am pretty sure that the show was not stopped so Randy's tech could tune guitars
sytharnia wrote:pretty sure LP and polka V were E and jacksons were Eb
That's what I always heard too. One thing that still puzzles me though, is why he used the LP for Crazy Train live,
when he recorded it with the PDV
I think its because the les Paul would stay in tune for the first 2 songs live
I Don't Know AND crazy train
The PDV is used for mr Crowley right after crazy train
If the PDV is used for crazy train then randy would love to use the whammy and Randy's tech would have to retune the PDV right after crazy train and I am pretty sure that the show was not stopped so Randy's tech could tune guitars
I have played crazy train on many guitars, it only sounds right on the les paul, especially the verse chords/riff. Just has a certain bite to it with an LP that isn't there with other guitars
randy will never die wrote:If the PDV is used for crazy train then randy would love to use the whammy and Randy's tech would have to retune the PDV right after crazy train and I am pretty sure that the show was not stopped so Randy's tech could tune guitars
hansolo wrote:So what would the keyboard (Ozzy) player do? Sit out certain songs or play something in Eb because for him it's in a different key now, instead of E? Can he tune down to Eb or down a semi-tone? Maybe he has a different st-up?
you can pitch shift a good keyboard to what ever you want
hansolo wrote:"Actually, it'd sound the same except for the actually pitch of the notes because the intervals between the notes doesn't change when you de-tune."
Yes, but most people would perceive it as "different" because it is in a different key. Now if someone played 3 songs in a row in Em, that would have the same tension. So what would the keyboard (Ozzy) player do? Sit out certain songs or play something in Eb because for him it's in a different key now, instead of E? Can he tune down to Eb or down a semi-tone? Maybe he has a different st-up?
On a keyboard he'd play it in Eb.
What I'm saying is that the average person cannot tell if the song is a half step down or not until they try to play along to the recording. If Randy had played all of the Diary songs in A440 live, no one would have known the difference.
If you've got access to two guitars, tune one standard and one a half step down and play the same song on each guitar. It will sound the same.
hansolo wrote:So what would the keyboard (Ozzy) player do? Sit out certain songs or play something in Eb because for him it's in a different key now, instead of E? Can he tune down to Eb or down a semi-tone? Maybe he has a different st-up?
you can pitch shift a good keyboard to what ever you want
While I don't claim to be an expert of keyboards, I'm not sure it was possible to downtune a late 1970's/early 1980's keyboard. Don Airey and Lindsay Bridgewater are both excellent keyboard players, so I doubt it bothered them at all.
Like the lunar and solar lights, humanity's unaligned, undefined.
If having a guitar in E and one in Eb is the same because apparently no one can tell the difference why would they do it? Why not have all guitars tuned to E? Because there is a difference and people can tell. They might not know what key it's in but will be perceived as different BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT KEY. Even Randy said the tuner was off on Diary but he liked that heavier sound (in Eb). If it's the same thing as being tuned to E than how could he hear a difference? It may be the same fretting for (guitar in E/Eb) you but pitch-wise, it's a different key. It may sound close but I guess you didn't understand when I talked about Maiden playing 3 songs in E in a row, how they all had the same feeling.
It's obvious that we're on different wavelengths here... the way I see it, MUSICIANS will perceive the difference in key, but 99% of the audience is NOT made up of musicians. Hence the use of the term average person. MOST people at a Maiden gig (in my opinion) wouldn't know or care if three songs in a row were in E. The feel for them is the tempo of the song, not the key.
Now, if you want to discuss tuning down for a heavier effect, Motley Crue did it on their Too Fast for Love record to great effect. C'mon and Dance doesn't sound right in standard tuning because the recording is a whole step down. Rock and Roll All Nite by KISS at a half step down, however sounds "normal" either way.
Ultimately it's the intervals that make the difference, not the key or the 1/2 step tuning. The Star Spangled Banner is routinely sung in whatever key is most suitable for the singer but it always sounds like the same song and nobody says, "Oh, she did that wrong, it should be in G not E." Same could be said for Johnny B. Goode which was originally recorded in Bb but is often played in A - as long as the licks and structure are right, people don't notice the key so much.
I use all sorts of different tunings in my playing from std. to bluegrass tunings like dadgad and everything in between. I've always looked at a different tuning as kind of like a different "flavor" so to speak, like certain foods call for different ingredients, certain songs call for different tunings. A song like "Black Water" by the Doobie Brothers is a good example, it really has to be tuned that way to get that sound. Paul is right, most casual listeners probably don't have a clue just like they might not know what spice it is in a mexican dish that makes them like it so much, they just like it (i know bad analogy, lol!!!). Its all part of the fun of exploring the guitar if you're a player. As i recall, I think all of Blizzard is tuned std. but all of Diary ( except S.A.T.O.) is flat (correct me if I'm wrong, i'd have to go back and listen), I always thought that flat tuning gave Diary a little bit "meaner" sound if that makes sense. Sometimes tuning flat helps a singer out a little to, so that could have been a consideration with Ozzy to.
"The Only Two Things In Life That Make It Worth Livin"
tedeeoo, I just read Life by Keith Richards and laughed when he said he's heard loads of people play Start Me Up in standard tuning but it just won't sound right unless you're in open G... now I know why I couldn't ever get it to sound right!
Paul Wolfe wrote:tedeeoo, I just read Life by Keith Richards and laughed when he said he's heard loads of people play Start Me Up in standard tuning but it just won't sound right unless you're in open G... now I know why I couldn't ever get it to sound right!
lol thats right, and i think he uses only 5 strings....
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne
It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
