hansolo wrote:It would be nice to hear if Bob and Lee got any money from the albums/box/cd's.
It would be nice, but no. They found a loophole and were able to put the originals back. I think the good old "double jeopardy" thing happened, so Ozzy could release the albums with the original tracks on them, but Bob and Lee couldn't sue.
They do get paid for something, but I couldn't remember what it was. It may have been performance royalties, or it may be writing royalties. I think it's writing royalties though, because they were suing for performance royalties and that's why they got erased.
Like the lunar and solar lights, humanity's unaligned, undefined.
halo8th wrote:so, in other words, the Osbournes deserve to hog ALL the money, right?
Thats right!!!!
Bob and Lee signed away their right to future royalties back in the day. They thought it a better decision to take a lump sum then... rather than wait and take a chance on how the album would sell in the future. Truth is no one had a clue those albums would still be hot sellers 30 years later. Had Bob and Lee known that they would not have signed away their rights. But they didn't know that. They went for the buck then. Thats how the court saw it. Now they bitch about it. They are still receiving song writting royalties.
I know it sucks.. and I don't agree with it.. But by signing the way they did they were essentialy "SESSION PLAYERS". Sharon even called them that in Guitar World. We all know they were way more important than that. But Due to bad decisions that is the case when it comes to their rights with those albums.
axeman_12656 wrote:Truth is no one had a clue those albums would still be hot sellers 30 years later.
Amen to that. The whole band was pretty unknown too, except for Ozzy.
Even to this day, bands with big-name people, make albums that's not
very successful to the masses.
According to Ozzy in his book, they were all hired guns to jump start his solo career. Remember, Sharon came to Ozzy and told him she wanted to manage him and back him as a solo artist, obviously he needed someone to play the instruments.
Everyone since then has been a hired gun as well, Tommy Aldridge and Rudy Sarzo didn't last long... in fact, no one but Zakk really lasted long in Ozzy's "band".
Yep Bob and Lee couldn't have fucked up anymore by essentially signing their rights away.
But I suppose someone had to do it, as I guess $haron would have played hard ball with anyone who wanted to be in Ozzy's band.
Does anyone know, had Randy lived on, would he be in the same situation now as Bob and Lee are?
The terms of Randy's contract would have been very similar if not the same, right? Perhaps someone more informative can fill us in.
halo8th wrote:so, in other words, the Osbournes deserve to hog ALL the money, right?
Thats right!!!!
Bob and Lee signed away their right to future royalties back in the day. They thought it a better decision to take a lump sum then... rather than wait and take a chance on how the album would sell in the future. Truth is no one had a clue those albums would still be hot sellers 30 years later. Had Bob and Lee known that they would not have signed away their rights. But they didn't know that. They went for the buck then. Thats how the court saw it. Now they bitch about it. They are still receiving song writting royalties.
I know it sucks.. and I don't agree with it.. But by signing the way they did they were essentialy "SESSION PLAYERS". Sharon even called them that in Guitar World. We all know they were way more important than that. But Due to bad decisions that is the case when it comes to their rights with those albums.
With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Neither Bob nor Lee signed away rights to their royalties and there was no lump-sum, up-front payment. By now, most people know that Bob and Lee won their case against Don Arden and Jet Records in 1986 for performance royalties in the High Court in London. They received a payment from Don Arden but the royalties didn't continue. Unbeknown to Bob and Lee, their performance royalties had been going into Sharon and Ozzy's pockets because Don had sold the Ozzy catalogue to Sharon. When they found out, Bob and Lee sued the Osbournes but after their case went through the American judicial system and was deemed credible, they didn't get their day in court because the statute of limitations came into play so they were denied a hearing... In other words, by the time that Bob and Lee found out that the Osbournes were pocketing their performance royalties, it was already too late to sue them.
The people who formed the band - Bob, Ozzy, Randy and Lee - named it The Blizzard of Ozz. It was a band and despite what Sharon would have us believe, no one involved was a 'session player'.
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
halo8th wrote:so, in other words, the Osbournes deserve to hog ALL the money, right?
Thats right!!!!
Bob and Lee signed away their right to future royalties back in the day. They thought it a better decision to take a lump sum then... rather than wait and take a chance on how the album would sell in the future. Truth is no one had a clue those albums would still be hot sellers 30 years later. Had Bob and Lee known that they would not have signed away their rights. But they didn't know that. They went for the buck then. Thats how the court saw it. Now they bitch about it. They are still receiving song writting royalties.
I know it sucks.. and I don't agree with it.. But by signing the way they did they were essentialy "SESSION PLAYERS". Sharon even called them that in Guitar World. We all know they were way more important than that. But Due to bad decisions that is the case when it comes to their rights with those albums.
With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Neither Bob nor Lee signed away rights to their royalties and there was no lump-sum, up-front payment. By now, most people know that Bob and Lee won their case against Don Arden and Jet Records in 1986 for performance royalties in the High Court in London. They received a payment from Don Arden but the royalties didn't continue. Unbeknown to Bob and Lee, their performance royalties had been going into Sharon and Ozzy's pockets because Don had sold the Ozzy catalogue to Sharon. When they found out, Bob and Lee sued the Osbournes but after their case went through the American judicial system and was deemed credible, they didn't get their day in court because the statute of limitations came into play so they were denied a hearing... In other words, by the time that Bob and Lee found out that the Osbournes were pocketing their performance royalties, it was already too late to sue them.
The people who formed the band - Bob, Ozzy, Randy and Lee - named it The Blizzard of Ozz. It was a band and despite what Sharon would have us believe, no one involved was a 'session player'.
The name blizzard of ozz was around long before bob and lee came on the scene, infact i have a photo somewhere of ozzy in his sabbath days wearing a shirt with 'Blizzard of ozz' written on it. Infact it was ozzy's father who suggested they call the band blizzard of ozz, thats well documented to.
As we dont know the full story of what happened back in the day all you can do is spectulate on what happened.
Theres more that one side to this story.
The album credits from the Blizzard of Ozz album released 5/31/2011:
Ozzy Osbourne-Lead Vocals/Harmony Vocals
Randy Rhoads-All Guitars
Bob Daisley-Bass Guitars/Harmony Vocals & Gongs
Lee Kerslake-Drums/Percussion/Tubular Bells/Timpani Drums
Produced by Osbourne, Daisley, Kerslake, Rhoads
All Compositions Osbourne/Daisley/Rhoads Except "Dee" (Rhoads) & "No Bone Movies" (Osbourne/Kerslake/Daisley/Rhoads)
Engineered by Max Norman
Don Airey: Keyboards
The Album credits from the Diary of a Madman album 5/31/2011:
All Songs written by Ozzy Osbourne, Randall Rhoads, Robert Daisley and Lee Kerslake except "You Can't Kill Rock And Roll" and "Believer" written by Ozzy Osbourne, Randall Rhoads and Robert Daisley
Produced by Max Norman, Ozzy Osbourne, Randy Rhoads
Point being session players do not normally receive credit to the extent as shown above. Bob has commented in the past that he and Jake reeceived lump sum/up front payments for the BATM album, which is why the credits on that album read "Words and music by Ozzy Osbourne".
Aside from unpaid royalties, Bob's problem remains the performance credits on DOAM. The 2011 vinyl copy still has the Mach II pic on the steps at Disney World and the bass and drum credits going to Sarzo and Aldridge remain as well.
For the CD issue, that picture is nowhere in the liner notes, (box or stand alone disc, I have both) and no one has performance credits listed anywhere.
It is true that Ozzy had the Blizzard band name from when he first left Sabbath before Never Say Die was recorded, and that his dad had come up with it, but it was indeed a band. Earlier this year, Someone, maybe Shaun), had shared a scan of a magazine feature when Daisley and Kerslake were still in the band, (was it Kerrang! or Sounds?), and in it, Sharon referred to the group as the Blizzard of Ozz! I almost fell out of my chair!
Somewhere in the recent past, I had read an interview with Lee stating that he and Bob did fuck up in trusting the Ardens. Any time they asked for a contract, they were told that the details were still being hammered out and that it was coming...keep touring, keep writing.
As I understand it, once your case is dismissed by the Supreme Court, it is finished. There is nowhere else to go.
In the Guitar World article, Sharon refers to the two as session players, yet said the following:
"He wrote and read music and was classically trained. And you're talking about guys that worked from their gut-guys who never had a music lesson in their life and couldn't talk musical language. And here's Randy telling them that it's C and D and this register and that register. To them, it was a foreign language, really."
It would seem that the person that musical language is foreign to would be Sharon. She should stick to what she knows, which is business management.
If you look up the definition of "Session Musician", the following is mentioned:
'Including sufficient ear training, versatility is one of the most important skills of session musicians as they may have to perform in a range of different settings. Session musicians are also expected to learn parts rapidly and to be skilled in sight reading.'
Maybe Bob and Lee hadn't had a music lesson in their life, but they were able to write music and compose the parts of their respective instruments, obviously.
A session musician comes in to the studio to play the parts that have already been written for them. They usually don't write lyrics or write the music and arrange it.
It's difficult to take Sharon's words in Guitar World seriously, as in the same article, she mentions the affair with Randy. (Again) Supposedly fucking your employee has what to do with the music exactly? This isn't People magazine, nor is it daytime television. It's a guitar magazine, geared towards musicians, which she is most certainly not. A rather sad and tasteless attempt to focus the attention on herself. She is most certainly her number one fan.
Last edited by whoopiecat on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whenever I put on Blizzard or Diary, what a wonderful, delicate furious beast.... I MISS you, man!
Thanks for the inisight Woopie.. Without question Bob and Lee are clearly way more than session players. Never a doubt about that. At the end of the day I would honestly rather see Bob and the O's, especially Ozzy bury the hatchet than anything else. Anyone that read Ozzy's book could tell Ozzy really likes Bob. It's all business... sad
