The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

Post by **Trigger** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Matt I fully agree with what you said.

Logan, I really don't feel I can improve on Matts above post.

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:16 pm

Just remember that the Bible also says that judging people is wrong as well.

Something about casting stones or whatever.
One of my favorite Bible verses is 1 John 3:15: Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life present in him. And if gay people are sinners by nature, so are the following people (according to Paul's letter to the Corinthians: fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, abusers of themselves with mankind, covetous, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners. We are all screwed, right? We are all doomed to be sinners and go to hell, because of Adam and Eve...BUT! Right after Paul says all that stuff: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Amen to that. Be a believer and repent for transgressions and it's allll good.

Zakk Daniels · Post by **Zakk Daniels** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:43 pm

I agree with Paul and Logan on this issue. I am not judging, I just feel it is against God's will, therefore not right. Just my opinion.

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:33 pm

NicDots wrote:Just remember that the Bible also says that judging people is wrong as well. Something about casting stones or whatever.

I googled because I couldn't remember the story.

John 8:7

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Matt

Post by **Trigger** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:18 pm

This thread just earned itself a sticky

I think its fantastic how members have been able to talk without taking offence and remain friends.
I see no reason to ever let such topics become out of bounds. UR proves that openess and difference is acceptable.

shanic · Post by **shanic** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:47 pm

Trigger wrote: I think its fantastic how members have been able to talk without taking offence and remain friends

I just watched a Jimmy Carr, spelling, show I think that it is now totally possible for me to offend every one!

Post by **Trigger** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:35 am

shanic wrote:
Trigger wrote: I think its fantastic how members have been able to talk without taking offence and remain friends
I just watched a Jimmy Carr, spelling, show I think that it is now totally possible for me to offend every one!

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:19 pm

Matthew wrote:As in existentialism thinking; I would say something is okay if the other/s concerned agreed. A violent person taking out his/her anger on a other person (I assume without their consent too!) maybe natural to their own feeling but not to the other.

A gay couple are enjoying each other and not harming anyone. It may not produce a child, because evolution in humans has seen to it that hetrosexuals produce kids and not homosexuals.

However...they gain from it (sexual union) by natural means-hense it is natural.

Just my thoughts

Matt

Matthew I love it that you are a thinking man the world needs more of you. However I would like to add another log to the intellectual fire by politely disputing a point you made in the above post. It is my intent that this will further intellectual exchange and not create contention between us.

So here goes:

You Sir are a tit! LOLOLOLOLOL Just kidding

On a more serious note If we are to believe in evolution and the survival of the fittest, then it goes obviously that Homosexuality is not a natural trait. Since Mankind has evolved into heterosexuality then that is the correct choice.

There are in fact several animal species that are asexual, and some that dabble in homosexuality (like dolphins) These are however not the norm. Since it is an anomaly this raises doubts about it's validity.

Sex is nothing more than physical stimulation. What makes it so powerful is the emotional connections. Two friends can have very powerful emotional connections without sex.

God did after all command us to be fruitful and multiply. Even if there was outright condemnation for homosexuality in the bible there is a latant law. After all how can two married men be fruitful and multiply? If they can not than they are breaking God's law. If Homosexuality causes you to break a law than that act while not outright condemned becomes wrong.

Please Matt I value your thoughts, so I anxiously await your rebuttal.

JustTakeAPebble · Post by **JustTakeAPebble** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:27 pm

I just want to point out one thing, God did not say Homosexuality was wrong, it was Man who wrote that.

You have to remember The Bible, is a book that has been passed on and translated through the different modifcations of English, and people would add bits in sneakingly.

Just my two cents, no offense and all, but it does infuriate me when people especially christian born, go on how Homosexuality is wrong, sorry to say but I have two homosexuals in my family, and a few more when i look back on my family tree. Do I care? No, they are normal people at the end of the day, so what if it's not a man, woman relationship, let them be.

Simon

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:52 pm

Okay lets get 'abreast' of things. Earlier at Dave's wake a dog walked near Mike Crouches whisky...in my best Sean Connery voice I said.

"I always thought Mike enjoyed 'hair of the dog' '"

When I cleared the tears from my eyes and finished congratulating myself on another awesome pun I noticed a stoney silence

I can see the evolution and survival of the fittest element of what you are saying....DAMN YOU!

Religious texts and interpretation to one side. If it is an accident of evolution then I still think it is for nature to see to it's growth, or eventual disappearance over time.

In this way science mirrors religion in my opinion; in not judging in religions case (and leaving it for someone/thing greater to judge), and not interfering in natures work when deciding something validity. Nature decides in the end by encouraging or discouraging.

I think often religion regards homosexuality as a choice, and a perverse one at that. It is no more a choice than I chose to be colour blind, or my mums choice to have low cholesterol.

Matt

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:29 pm

JustTakeAPebble wrote:I just want to point out one thing, God did not say Homosexuality was wrong, it was Man who wrote that.

You have to remember The Bible, is a book that has been passed on and translated through the different modifcations of English, and people would add bits in sneakingly.

Just my two cents, no offense and all, but it does infuriate me when people especially christian born, go on how Homosexuality is wrong, sorry to say but I have two homosexuals in my family, and a few more when i look back on my family tree. Do I care? No, they are normal people at the end of the day, so what if it's not a man, woman relationship, let them be.

Simon

Hi Simon

Not trying to make waves but in my post I never said the bible said that it was wrong. I'm saying it is an IMPLIED.

If I am God (Yeah right!) and I tell you to be fruitful and multiply (meaning have lots of kids) then you go out and shack up with another guy, Are you following my admonition? No. Because two guys having sex will not create a child. So if that will not allow you to follow the rule it to is bad.

It's like the law that says you can not drive faster than 55 miles per hour on the highway then you make a car that can only go 80. Is that car legal? No because it causes you to break the law.

Hope this clears up my comment.

Best wishes to you,
Logan

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:31 pm

Sorry I forgot to say that I have nothing against Homosexuals. I believe that as long as it's not hurting anyone you have the right to do what ever the hell you want. But I do not have to like it or support it. That is my right.

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:20 pm

Logan wrote:Sorry I forgot to say that I have nothing against Homosexuals. I believe that as long as it's not hurting anyone you have the right to do what ever the hell you want. But I do not have to like it or support it. That is my right.

I am so glad you joined at UR and have gotten involved with all the fun debates.

Great point Logan.

Mattx

Post by **Trigger** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:22 pm

As soon as I make this a Sticky you all go quiet!

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:18 pm

The Flying Dutchman wrote:What about transexuals......
It has been examined and their brains do indeed differ from non-transexuals. (maybe a little mistake from god....) If they can't get surgery what should they do? What advice give the bible to these people?

Hi Patrick

I missed this. The condition must have been around too in the time span of the books of the bible.

Matt