Wikileaks thread

[Alex]

xx123456

[wareagle]

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[wareagle]

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[Paul Wolfe]

Wow, wareagle, does this issue get you riled up or what?

In the United States of America, everything is run by money. Laws are created or eliminated because of the amount of money thrown at lawmakers to influence their actions. Drugs are approved or disapproved based on the money thrown at the lawmakers... etc. Cancer will never be cured because there is to much money in "research". We'll continue to waste our time on the 'space program' because of the amount of money to be made there, not because we'll ever live on the moon.

People like to attack the President for the issues in the States, it isn't the President, it's the Congress that decide what is and what will never be. They can even override the President's veto if they so choose. Why is this country so F'd up? Because the "Republicans" and "Democrats" want to have all the power and all the wealth. Neither side cares about "the people".

Julian Assange is being persecuted because he has enabled the truth about the inner workings of the government to be seen as they really are. People with something to hide (politicians) fear the light. Assange has thrown a bright light out there and it scares the hucksters.

It's only a matter of time until the USA has the same sort of uprising seen in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya... it's happened in every society in history and will happen again.


BTW No, I haven't read the entire thread, I just jumped in here, so forgive me if I'm reiterating issues discussed previously.

[rice_pudding]

Well said Paul,

Interesting side note; our Prime Minister is touring the middle east at the moment on a campaign for peace and trade along with 30 UK businessmen. He, like most world leaders, has publicly attacked recent civilian deaths in Libya.

8 of his businessmen on this happy peace trail represent the UK arms industry. Peace is only good if it makes money. One uk citizen stated the obvious, "commerce drives foreign policy, not ethics or morals"

BTW Julian Assange lost his case against extradition. He will appeal...

Rob

p.s. hope you are well Paul, seems an age since i spoke to you

[oth]

Well said Paul,

Interesting side note; our Prime Minister is touring the middle east at the moment on a campaign for peace and trade along with 30 UK businessmen. He, like most world leaders, has publicly attacked recent civilian deaths in Libya.

8 of his businessmen on this happy peace trail represent the UK arms industry. Peace is only good if it makes money. One uk citizen stated the obvious, "commerce drives foreign policy, not ethics or morals"

BTW Julian Assange lost his case against extradition. He will appeal...

Rob

p.s. hope you are well Paul, seems an age since i spoke to you

Every one of these arab dictatorships that is falling now at some point have been propped up by the west.Its a joke when the west says it is now behind the protestors.Western contractors have been supplying mubarak,hussein,the saudi kingdom et al with weapons to suppress/kill their own citizenry for decades.'Beware of the military industrial complex'...not my words but thoose of President Eisenhower(a conservative war hawk, no less) some 50yrs ago!
Same reason that Osama has never been 'found'.If you kill the boogeyman you kill the war and almost all reason for war/occupation to go on and all those military contractors stop making huge bucks.

[Tito]

my thoughts exactly oth!!! i just find it hard to believe that after so many years all of a sudden theres a revolt in the mideast?the same supporters of these dictatorships have changed course it looks like.....idk somethings up with this..

[oth]

Tito,i just got back from store and i gave some money to some charity group begging for cash outside the store.I gave a few bucks.The charity was something or other for our troops!!!!!!!!Why the F do military families have to beg for cash while haliburtn is given tens of billions to do nothing?Its obscene.All this hype about values,freedom,support the troops is BS from our govt to brainwash the masses-its a mask for what our politicians really value:money and taking kickbacks to the bank.No soldier who s seen combat should ever have to pay for healthcare or be made homeless.

[Tito]

exactly!!!!!!!and i just seen ri laid off a bunch of teachers!!!!!!what the hells going on!!!!????this country is going to shit with a gallon of gas lit!!!!

[oth]

the US has seen a dramatic rate of internal erosion since 2000.What damage 911 caused pales in comparison to what our incompetent govt policy has created since.Osama thought he could destroy us-wrong we are doing it for him.We are fighting 2 costly,useless wars in a most inefficient way.Our currency has fallen almost 50% against canada and australia.Gas has quadrupled.Infrastructure and the education system is falling apart because we dont want to tax and invest appropriately(the billionaire owners of the LA Dodgers have not paid taxes in many years!).Wages are stagnant.Tax cuts to corporations who offshore jobs and hire mostly temp/part time workers so as to minimize worker benefits and maximize profits.How are we as a people supposed to excel if we treat people like crap?
We have seen 3 major financial crashes in just 1 decade:the dot com stock crash,the housing collapse and the 2008-9stock market crash.All 3 of those crashes were the result of fraud which cost tens of TRILLIONS.Not 1 of these persons who has ripped America off of trillions of dollars has been jailed for all this fraud yet poor people who smoke crack and generally cause no probs to American society outside the hood, are sent to prison for life.I wouldnt expect bush to jail any CEO's but i thought obama would.Wrong,obama is bought and paid for also.We are morphing into a society of Kings,Queens and Celebrities and their subjects.
You know 10 yrs ago peeps including me were pissed at ralph nader and blaming him for Gore losing against Bush.But now i realize,Nader was right-both parties are equally corrupt to the core.Our politicians represent and act on behalf of corporations not citizens.They are merely acting as corporate agents shaping policies that benefit their respective corporate sponsor.

Our trajectory resembles more like a race to the bottom than to the top.

[rice_pudding]

my thoughts exactly oth!!! i just find it hard to believe that after so many years all of a sudden theres a revolt in the mideast?the same supporters of these dictatorships have changed course it looks like.....idk somethings up with this..

As you say Tito, 'somethings up'

It goes without saying that a lot of foreign intelligence workers in the US and UK among others will be shitting bricks right now and working long hours. Whoever ends up in charge of these revolting nations will be a glove puppet for the west if they have their way.

Hopefully, this wont happen. People often wonder why the middle east hates the west. It not because of religion, its because for generations the west has had its fist up the middle easts ass, manipulating and dictating politics from within for personal gain. Largely for cheap oil, so cheap we're ripping them off, and to keep those "godless, commie scum, Chinese" out of the cabbage patch... among other things. Until the middle east has a govt free of the west, the hatred will continue.

The only problem is that one likely answer is an extremist islamist govt, and then the international stick poking will begin again.

I have to wonder how the protests have originated though. The timing of key statements by the US govt would suggest that they are not behind the revolution. Many have suggested the Iraqi elections are to blame and now everyone wants democracy. But Iraq had elections a while ago now, so why weren't people quicker off the mark? Another suggestion would be radical elements in Iran/Syria etc.

Either way i see the revolution as a good thing, but i wonder who will benefit most.

Rob

[oth]

my thoughts exactly oth!!! i just find it hard to believe that after so many years all of a sudden theres a revolt in the mideast?the same supporters of these dictatorships have changed course it looks like.....idk somethings up with this..

Hopefully, this wont happen. People often wonder why the middle east hates the west. It not because of religion, its because for generations the west has had its fist up the middle easts ass, manipulating and dictating politics from within for personal gain. Largely for cheap oil, so cheap we're ripping them off, and to keep those "godless, commie scum, Chinese" out of the cabbage patch... among other things. Until the middle east has a govt free of the west, the hatred will continue.

The only problem is that one likely answer is an extremist islamist govt, and then the international stick poking will begin again.

Rob

After 9 11 the govt and media (like dan rather on letterman) repeated the most idiotic,senseless statement that the mid east hates us because of our freedom and liberty!If ever a more mindless,nebulous statement was ever crafted this was it.But perhaps this idiotic statement was crafted to fit the ignorance of the general population.Lets face it,peeps in this country know nothing about history and what goes on outside the usa.Middle east history especially from the last 100yrs should be mandatory for all 6th graders.

I hope the void left by these dictators is not filled by religious nuts as what happened in iran in 1979 when the Shah/dictator was ousted.

[Trigger]

Terror has never been that much of a concern here and I think the British see it as paranoia, as a result we seem to handle such silliness by making fun of it!
Here is something I was sent a few days ago that demonstrates out lack of interest in bogus paranoia planning.
...............................................................
ALERTS TO TERROR THREATS IN 2011 EUROPE

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross."

The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out.

Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be right, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is canceled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

[Trigger]

Staying a little more on topic and regarding the Arab popular revoltions I think that the chances of those nations becoming Islamic nations ran bby moronic mullahs is unlikely, that is only a short leap from what they have now semi secular murderers and torturers who do what 'The West' tell them.

We are comfortable in the West to fear the Arabs and think that only horror follows them and ignore what really pisses them off! and we rely on the media to tell blatent lies about history.
What we will have to do if we want peace and an end to terror is to make sure that the ilegal occupation of the West bank is ended and that Israel allows the Palestinian refugees to return which is right enshrined in international law and 'WE' allow Zionist Israel to ignore and push Palestinians into false hopes while Israel lie cheat and distort history and vioalte what we expect from a 'so called' civilised state.
This is all allowed to happen because the US government pour billions of dollars into the Israel to protect them from a threat that does not exist and never really did! take a look at what the Zionist state did in Gaza when nobody was safe or inocent enough to be considered safe? any real try at justice for the victims is blocked by the USA as is any real action to prevent them building settlements on land they steal! the USA paid Israel a billion $ a month for a period of three months to halt expanding/building settlements last year! WHY? if it is ilegal stop backing them and don't give them money!!

Should you really want a peaceful Arab world insist on ending the occupation, demolish the settlements allow the right to return! better still push for all arab areas to become part of Israel let the refugees return and allow them full equality and let democracy settle the problem.

When you Sort out the Palestinian issue you remove real trouble in the middle east but to leave it as it is and all you are doing is keeping divide and rule in place, this allows anger to rule and at the same time 'We' can arm everyone and create the myth of danger! New Arab democracies are a good start and when they are dealt with lets do the right thing and stop what it is that marginalises the arab world.

[oth]

wHILE I AGREE THAT THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION is unjustified i think most arab/islamic nations use israel as an excuse for their problems that they dont want to face,like their religious fanaticsm/dogma which keeps them down and ignorant.I dont know how israel can be to blame for libya,tunisia,suadi arabia or irans problems.Israel is the boogeyman for most of the arabic world.Get rid of israel and most of the arabic would stay as f'ed up as it ever was.Same as osama,get rid of him and nothing changes over there -except maybe here the reason for war will vanish.