Happy Belated Memorial day to all

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oth
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by oth »

Paul Wolfe wrote:
Paiste2002 wrote:A bar owner of post at Ft Knox had the best solution for underage soldiers. He was a retired command sergeant major and his motto was if you're old enough to die for your country you're old enough to drink.

No offense intended, Craig, but that motto is pathetic. As was pointed out in another thread, a law is a law is law. The law was made because 18-year-olds have proven to be, in general, too immature to handle alcohol. Most kids in their 20's that I know are also too immature, but an age had to be determined and 21 was chosen.

A

Paul,answer me this,if under 21 yr olds arent mature enough to drink then how are they mature enough to die for and defend our country????
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Trigger
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

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guntervent wrote: imagine being one of the young German soldiers Not a nazi mind you, but just a common German youth forced into service of a madman out of fear of retaliation the controlling party would take on your family if you did not serve, who before the war was a farm hand or a school boy, waiting in those bunkers peering out and seeing the coming invasion and the armada of ships and shell flying overhead. It must have been hell on earth for all present, I cant Imagine in any dream or nightmare what that must have been like for all of them.

I will tell you a story that I have only told to my Jewish friends.

My mum had a cousin who was about fifteen years older than her husband Peter was a small man with a beautiful English accent and interest in many things , he was an engineer and he had a story with hearing because it touched and challenged so many of our conceptions of the Germans during WWII.

Peter was conscripted into the German army when he finished college in 1941 and after basic training was sent to the French coastal defences where he stared across at the English coast and fired at the RAF planes that would appear overhead as they made their way to bomb Berlin. He wasn’t a Nazi party member he just had no choice, one afternoon he was summoned to see his Commanding Officer. When he entered his office he was surprised to see know other German officers only his commanding Officer no images of Hitler on the wall they had been taken down and no compulsory salute to Hitler like we see in old war films. He sat down and he was told that a secret order was sent to him to arrest Peter early the next morning and that the Gestapo would turn up to take him back to Germany later the following day!
What had transpired was that Peters family had been Jewish until a few generation earlier but had converted to Catholicism and from that moment on they were very active within the Church and Peter himself was a choir boy at the Cathedral.
As you can imagine he was in turmoil because he knew that he would not survive at the hands of the Nazi secret Police and so did his Commanding Officer, he also knew that Peter was a good man and wasn’t filled with hate.
What followed is stunning to me now as a grown up because I know the implications for his Commanding Officer, he took Peter to the beach where he had arranged for a rowing boat to be left, he handed Peter a letter to explain what had happened and to assure whoever found him of Peters honourable character. He told Peter to row to England and surrender to the British Armed forces and to join them and come back and liberate Europe of the Nazi occupiers’
Peter was frightened because he knew that he himself had watched the coast line and opened fire of small craft in case they were British spies or soldiers launching an attack, this threat had been erased by this brave German Officer because he had stood down all the guards and watchmen for thirty miles for an hour so Peter could get himself out of range of the German guns.

He arrived in Britain and after a short time establishing that Peter wasn’t a spy he joined the British army and was one of those who fought across the beaches fighting those who he had served with a couple of years earlier. He went on fighting across Europe and hunted for his family only one of his sisters survived the rest of his family were sent onto Concentration camps and murdered. Peters sister never forgave him for not taking her and his family to safety with him and she refused to ever have contact with him after her liberation. Peter lost his faith and became atheist but hung onto his kind sweet nature he wanted children but his wife was unable to conceive and he died in 1982 of cancer.

I often wonder what happened the next day when the Gestapo turned up and discovered Peter was gone and the coastal defences had been stood down for a hour?
How did he feel as he was targeting young frightened men who were just like him who hated Hitler and now he had to kill them?
And how he dealt with the rejection of his only surviving family member whose experience within the Nazi death machine left her so mentally damaged that she rejected him?

As a person who has studied history and politics it took me a long time to realise that in 1945 we liberated the Germans, The Germans had democracy removed and replaced with secret police and political army units who murdered and pillaged Europe in the name of ordinary disposed Germans.
Cologne she'll wear silver and americard, She'll drive a beetle car and beat you down at cool Canasta. And when the clothes are strewn don't be afraid of the room touch the fullness of her breast feel the love of her caress she will be your living end.
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guntervent
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by guntervent »

Wow Great story Trigger Thanks for sharing that. That is what i'm talking about most Germans wanted to shoot hitler themselves he was the tyrant who caused it all along with his cronies. That is why I like the line from the movie Patton when the soldier ask "were ya goin General?" Patton replies" I'm going to Berlin to personally shoot that paper hanging son of a bitch"
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Paul Wolfe »

oth wrote:Paul,answer me this,if under 21 yr olds arent mature enough to drink then how are they mature enough to die for and defend our country????
A person can be trained to be a soldier, a person cannot be trained to handle alcohol. And choosing to be a soldier and defend a nation doesn't mean you will die, it means you may die. Just like a drunk 18-year-old may or may not get in a car and kill someone.

It's obvious that you are under 18, not a vet and are mad that you cannot drink legally. That's a shame, because there is so much more to life than alcohol.
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Alex »

xx123456
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oth
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by oth »

Paul Wolfe wrote:
oth wrote:Paul,answer me this,if under 21 yr olds arent mature enough to drink then how are they mature enough to die for and defend our country????
a person cannot be trained to handle alcohol.
Are you an alcoholic?Because you sure are sounding preacher-like.
Maybe you cant handle alcohol responsibly but many people do.And many more people in the 21+ age category get killed by alcohol than in the 18-20 age group.It makes no sense to deny 1 age group without denying the other age group.If your against alcohol then be consistent and ban it for all adults.

BTW,i trained myself to handle alcohol quite well when i was younger but i rarely drink.I am also older than you.

It is grossly insulting to brave young adult soldiers who risk their lives to defend the right of expression to self righteous,morality preachers who want to deny them the ability to drink alcohol.18-21 yr olds are adults.
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by shawn »

oth wrote: BTW,i trained myself to handle alcohol quite well when i was younger but i rarely drink.
EDIT: removed unnecessary madness.

No one can train themselves to handle alcohol, they may choose not to drink to excess true, but train them self to handle alcohol come on.

Oh man I was so going to avoid this thread.
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Cpt Matt Sparrow
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Cpt Matt Sparrow »

Why don't we start a separate debate for laws and their idiosyncrasies as mentioned here? after all there are plenty of them around!

As for the threads original purpose; cheers to the memorial day; I don't always agree with reasons for war, but I do respect a soldiers way of life deeply and am grateful for the ones that have fought so we can have freedom :)

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Alex
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Alex »

xx123456
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oth
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by oth »

Paul you never did answer if under 21 yr olds arent mature enough to drink then how are they mature enough to die for and defend our country?Also,are you a recovering alcoholic?
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shawn
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by shawn »

Hello Alex

I think that 95% of what you stated above is common sense; do not drink to excess water and food prevent hangovers and limit your intake.

I can not see a skill that can be acquired that will enable someone to handle alcohol, I can see some that will limit alcohol intake or deal with a hangover.

Eh talk about hijacking a thread.

We have quite large celebrations to remember those fallen in wars for our country and they are getting larger crowds every year which is fantastic. I agree 100% with those for both world wars, but find it hard to rationalise my country being involved in wars at this point in time.
oth wrote:It is grossly insulting to brave young adult soldiers who risk their lives to defend the right of expression to self righteous,morality preachers who want to deny them the ability to drink alcohol.18-21 yr olds are adults.
I call bullshit on the comment above ^^. A soldier chooses there job just as a plumber/priest/accountant does. Also I highly doubt that any soldier fighting for our countries at this point in time are defending our right of expression. I know for a fact that was not the line that the any government was spinning for going to war at present.
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by guntervent »

wow, a thread intended to say Thanks to the vets alive and fallen turned into a pissing contest over legal drinking age?????
I dont think I ever heard a solider getting shot at say, Hey it's fuckin Miller Time.
Dont know how else to put it!!!!
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Trigger »

guntervent wrote:wow, a thread intended to say Thanks to the vets alive and fallen turned into a pissing contest over legal drinking age?????
I dont think I ever heard a solider getting shot at say, Hey it's fuckin Miller Time.
Dont know how else to put it!!!!
Don't worry about it G, from time to time a subject swerves arond a bit and different things get dragged in! just like any conversation does, they sometimes get heated but normally end OK.

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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Cpt Matt Sparrow »

Hi Ian

i didn't see this; I have created another thread for people wishing to debate the legal drinking age and the eligibility of fighting in the forces. My suggestion is that if anyone wishes to continue this subject they should continue there. It seems a shame a thread with good intents ie celebrating a birthday, anniversary should lose it's focus.

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Trigger
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Re: Happy Belated Memorial day to all

Post by Trigger »

Yes Matt I agree it drained all the respect out of it! I was polite above but I was disapointed that it went from a respectful thread where I told a very private family story which I wasn't sure if I should tell, and splled into something about young people drinking very sad.
I am sorry Gunter and Craig about this.
Cologne she'll wear silver and americard, She'll drive a beetle car and beat you down at cool Canasta. And when the clothes are strewn don't be afraid of the room touch the fullness of her breast feel the love of her caress she will be your living end.
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