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 Post subject: The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:02 am 
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Before the site went down there were some fascinating discussions, all which took place with the greatest respect, humour and also intelligence.

I thought I would start the thread back up as I have just read a fascinating book (well I read it three times in total) that uses records found in India and other religious scripture, that Jesus trained with Yogi masters and it also cites many of his teachings and the similarities in the 4 published gospels too of the new testament.

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Last edited by Cpt Matt Sparrow on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:38 pm 
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I am glad somebody else enjoyed those threads, I enjoyed the banter even though I am not Christian.
I wasn't aware that Jesus was said to have visited India although it makes perfect sense. India is a short distance from Palestine, I false story was circulated that he came to Britain with his uncle as a boy (to Lindisfarn island).

I think we should have those debates again.

Ian

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:26 pm 
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The book I enjoyed was called 'The Mystical Life Of Jesus' by H.Spencer Lewis. It was written first n 1929 and then re published just after the Dead Sea Scrools Were found too.

Nicolai Notovitch and the German scholar Holga Kersten. Notovitch wrote a book, The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ, after his visit to the Ladakh region in Jammu and Kashmir state in 1887.

If people doubted Notovitches findings when Kersten also reported and recorded the same information people listened.

the name Isha is also another name for Jesus and the name both the above men reported back on.

Matt

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
From the age 0f 13 to 30 we have no record of what he was up to. If the only way to Heaven is through faith in Christ, then why would Jesus only present Himself to a limited audience in Palestine? Why would God create all the people of the Earth and only present a Saviour to a few?



This has always been a question of mine, not put this way but in the same vain. The answer that is often given always has faith involved that is Christianity is a faith based practicing.

It is recorded in many places around the time of the resurrection that there were visits by a profit. May be this could be a partial answer lol.

And funny that this thread should be brought up just yesterday read this.

http://http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/

There is some interseting bits in here
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/AncientHell.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Jesus RULES!!!

I am a devout Christian, and I am not at all smart, but I do know, and believe in my heart that Jesus is real, and that I value my Roman Catholic upbringing.

Now, give me a beer!!

Later!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:42 pm 
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The following may offend, but if it does, I am sorry and this is my own opinion on things.



To be honest, I can't stand christianity when its a members only club...

I'd like to go to a place where I am not tortured, I am not burnt eternally... yes that means I'd like to go to heaven..

I can imagine the day I get up to the pearly gates, go up to the gatekeeper, and goes like this..

"Name child?"

"Simon Fielder.."

"Simon Fielder? Lets see... mmm.. AHA! Fielder, Simon.. sorry you are not a christian, Go directly to Hell, do not collect £200"

*hears a click and looks below, the cloud beneath me disapears and I fall back down to earth and further into hell*

I find it upsetting the fact that since the moment you are bearly able to understand, when you are bearly even walking, or even able to speak, you are
thrown into belief of the religion, I was lucky I wasn't baptised, I was aloud to choose what my religion can be, but I notice a lot of people don't have that choice and frankly...

It disturbs me when I see a 6 year old preacher on the television, telling people how fantastic jesus is and what's god done for them, and telling (not asking)
people to come find faith in god and jesus! it seems to me that the child's parents preached that poor child.

Religion in my opinion, although cited as to have brought order to chaos, brought people something to believe in, which is good and all. but in my opinion, blood has stained a lot of religions, a lot of blood, destruction and war has happend due to religion.

All this what I have said, is again my opinion.. don't agree, then that's your opinion, I respect that so long as you respect mine.

Saying all this...

As much as I can't stand religion... I do find it interesting.

Oh and hey! if ya want a funny story to lighten my rant.. :P

Two instances of Me Verses Christianity.

I remember when I was at school, a year before i left, the Religious Education teacher asked

"God, is he male or female?"

so I put my hand up, after hearing the answers consist of "Male" why? "Just because it says so in the bible" from the other pupils, I said.

"God is male"

the teacher asked,

"Why?"

my response?

"God is male because if he was female, God would be known as Goddess"

which resulted to her going "Woooo" :roll: "someone's smart" in a sarcastic tone

another example..

The teacher had set us the assignment of modernising a bible story, most people did the christmas story,

so did I but with a difference...

I had put joseph, god and mary on the jerry springer show, with god and joseph arguing who's the father
of jesus.

it went down with a treat. :D


by treat... I mean she told me to throw my assignment in the bin.

Simon

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Zakk Daniels wrote:
Jesus RULES!!!

I am a devout Christian, and I am not at all smart, but I do know, and believe in my heart that Jesus is real, and that I value my Roman Catholic upbringing.

Now, give me a beer!!

Later!!


Here's to you!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:34 am 
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i find it quite funny that most christians base their beliefs and thoughts on Jesus
on a book with writings that's more than 100 years older than his birth.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:23 am 
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Stiltzkin wrote:
i find it quite funny that most christians base their beliefs and thoughts on Jesus
on a book with writings that's more than 100 years older than his birth.


That is not exactly true Robin. Most academics say the earliest Gospel is around 60 years after his death.

Also unlike now were we have photocopying facilities everything was done by hand.

Well what is amazing is that the Jews for example counted the words on every page and also the amount of letters/words per line to ensure each line was correct to the one copied.


Matt

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Anyone ever hear about the flying spaghetti monster?


Last edited by highpriestess on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:16 pm 
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highpriestess wrote:
siro_angel wrote:
The teacher had set us the assignment of modernising a bible story, most people did the christmas story,

so did I but with a difference...

I had put joseph, god and mary on the jerry springer show, with god and joseph arguing who's the father
of jesus.

it went down with a treat. :D


by treat... I mean she told me to throw my assignment in the bin.

Simon


That is GENIUS in my opinion. You should have gotten an A for that assignment, dude! It really touches on the REALITY of how society is today AND how god fits into it.

I would have titled it "Hey Virgin, Who's Your Baby Daddy?"


I'm sorry, but THAT really truly was genius, Simon. Grad school level stuff if you ask me!


Thanks! lol!! :D :D :oops: :D :D

hey i once did a mock Jerry Springer show script at college and the title was..

"He cheated on me with my imaginary friend"

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:02 pm 
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I have a series of 3 books entitled "The lost teachings of Christ". These books talk about Jesus' journey to the far east when he was quite young and learning under eastern masters until he was in his twenties. I have no idea what historical evidence, if there is any at all, the authors used to make such claims. That aside, the christian philosophy isn't all that far off center from many eastern philosophies. The authors belong to some wacko cult "The universal church of truth" or some shit, they are space cadets but I like to read anything and everything so their insanity doesn't bother me in the least.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:37 pm 
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Simon, not many things in this life are anything but a "members only" endeavor. For example, in the "Randy Rhoads community" if your were to say that Brad Paisley is a better guitar player than Randy was, you'd be attacked mercilessly by the majority. "Members" of the community know that Randy is to be considered king and all others are pretenders to the throne, non-members of the community must accept this to be fully accepted into the fold.

Where Christianity is concerned, it is called Christianity because it's members are followers of Christ. So, of course, it's a members only "club". If you don't believe in and follow Christ, you simply are not Christian.

As for the idea that any belief system that brings you comfort being valid, that is all well and good in an attempt to survive this life. Christians believe there is more after this life and to move into that next world we must follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Anyone who doesn't believe that is free to believe as they choose. At the moment of their death - and not a minute sooner - they will find out if their belief or the Christian belief is the truth.

In the Bible we are told that God created Adam and Eve and He placed them in the Garden of Eden. He gave them a set of rules to follow that consisted of not eating the fruit of one particular tree. He also gave them the freedom of choice to decide for themselves whether they wanted to obey that rule or not. They exercised that right of free choice and chose to not abide by that rule. The consequence was to lose the Garden of Eden and to be cast out of a world of perfection into the world we know of now.

To this day we are each given the freedom to choose our beliefs. God does not force Himself on us. He is presented to us and we are given the freedom to believe, doubt or reject outright. That freedom comes with the price of accepting the consequences of our choice. If you choose to reject Jesus Christ and on the day of your death it turns out that you were wrong, then you must accept the consequences of that choice. The same holds true for Believers of Christ. If, at the time of our death, we find out Jesus was a myth, we must accept that.

Christianity is based on faith which is defined as being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (Hebrews 11:1) Zakk is a perfect example of that faith, he just knows Jesus is God. I am the same way. You are all free to discuss and decide for yourselves, but ultimately you won't be given proof until you pass into the next life. That is why you are asked to accept this on faith.

Finally Simon, your school project was offensive to some because you were making fun of something many people hold as the center of their lives. Muslims have been known to kill people who make fun of their beliefs in such ways. It is always good to treat such subjects with respect, because if you want respect from others, you must give respect.


Last edited by Paul Wolfe on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:59 pm 
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Thank you for that argument Paul :)

Although I never said God forced himself on us people, i just see people force god on people who doesnt want to listen, and theres a few people that do that.

Ive seen some people behave in such way that dismissing Randy Rhoads can cause uproars simular to saying that there is no such thing as god, however luckily it's not the complete Randy Rhoads community.

I believe that the only truth in Adam and Eve is the fact that Adam and Eve may have been the first humans on earth but I don't believe in that it's their fault we live in such an inperfect society, just from eating God's apples again my opinion.

As for my school project being offensive, it was never intentional to be offensive, they wanted it updated so I did so, I mean it's like transposing shakespeare into modern media, you can have the characters speak word from word from the play, no alterations, but to have it set in say the year 2008 will be unfitting, i don't see many people say

"O woe! O woeful, woeful, woeful day!
Most lamentable day. Most woeful day
That ever, ever I did yet behold!
O day, O day, O day! O hateful day!
Never was seen so black a day as this.
O woeful day! O woeful day!"

(Romeo and Juliet)

Nowadays it's more..

"I'm so depressed.. I've had the shittest day of my life"


As for respect, I know the term "respect is earnt not given" I always respect everyone, and their beliefs regardless if i disagree with them, I'm just a skeptic on religion, like one that has contains a fair few contracdictions, how many have died in christianity's name, yes it's the man who did it not God, but who's to say God wasn't a tale? I mean, these stories about him were written prewritten languages, so whos to know if they're accurate, as are all gods in different religions, are the same person, just with a different face.

Again wha I just said is my opinion.

Let's just say, that I aint a believer, and you paul among others are believers, I respect you and everyone.

Simon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
Simon, not many things in this life are anything but a "members only" endeavor. For example, in the "Randy Rhoads community" if your were to say that Brad Paisley is a better guitar player than Randy was, you'd be attacked mercilessly by the majority. "Members" of the community know that Randy is to be considered king and all others are pretenders to the throne, non-members of the community must accept this to be fully accepted into the fold.

Where Christianity is concerned, it is called Christianity because it's members are followers of Christ. So, of course, it's a members only "club". If you don't believe in and follow Christ, you simply are not Christian.

As for the idea that any belief system that brings you comfort being valid, that is all well and good in an attempt to survive this life. Christians believe there is more after this life and to move into that next world we must follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Anyone who doesn't believe that is free to believe as they choose. At the moment of their death - and not a minute sooner - they will find out if their belief or the Christian belief is the truth.

In the Bible we are told that God created Adam and Eve and He placed them in the Garden of Eden. He gave them a set of rules to follow that consisted of not eating the fruit of one particular tree. He also gave them the freedom of choice to decide for themselves whether they wanted to obey that rule or not. They exercised that right of free choice and chose to not abide by that rule. The consequence was to lose the Garden of Eden and to be cast out of a world of perfection into the world we know of now.

To this day we are each given the freedom to choose our beliefs. God does not force Himself on us. He is presented to us and we are given the freedom to believe, doubt or reject outright. That freedom comes with the price of accepting the consequences of our choice. If you choose to reject Jesus Christ and on the day of your death it turns out that you were wrong, then you must accept the consequences of that choice. The same holds true for Believers of Christ. If, at the time of our death, we find out Jesus was a myth, we must accept that.

Christianity is based on faith which is defined as being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (Hebrews 11:1) Zakk is a perfect example of that faith, he just knows Jesus is God. I am the same way. You are all free to discuss and decide for yourselves, but ultimately you won't be given proof until you pass into the next life. That is why you are asked to accept this on faith.

Finally Simon, your school project was offensive to some because you were making fun of something many people hold as the center of their lives. Muslims have been known to kill people who make fun of their beliefs in such ways. It is always good to treat such subjects with respect, because if you want respect from others, you must give respect.


beautifully put.


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