The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

[Trigger]

I remember hearing Dawkins being interviewed with a Bishop on Radio 4 (UK) which is Britains high brow radio channel.
The last word in the exchange was offered to the Bishop and as he finished Dawkins added 'Why should we give him extra credibility just because he has an imaginary friend!?'

Now, I didn't laugh because I am an athiest I laughed because of his bare faced cheek, He really does know how to push peoples buttons and I have seen him interviewed when he is pleasent and presents a decent balanced point.

at least we have a Dawkins here to open up debates and exchanges.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

I remember hearing Dawkins being interviewed with a Bishop on Radio 4 (UK) which is Britains high brow radio channel.
The last word in the exchange was offered to the Bishop and as he finished Dawkins added 'Why should we give him extra credibility just because he has an imaginary friend!?'

Now, I didn't laugh because I am an athiest I laughed because of his bare faced cheek, He really does know how to push peoples buttons and I have seen him interviewed when he is pleasent and presents a decent balanced point.

at least we have a Dawkins here to open up debates and exchanges.

LMAO!!

The British press call him Darwin's Rottweiler!

Matt

[NicDots]

I for one believe in Darwinism and God. Don't know why you can't have your cake and eat it too...or whatever that saying is.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

I for one believe in Darwinism and God. Don't know why you can't have your cake and eat it too...or whatever that saying is.

I agree. I see it completely logical that a supreme being would trigger evolution.
I think Richard Dawkins' arguments in the God Delusion are more aimed at fundamentalists of all faiths.

I think like Ian and Logan too describing that for God to exists he must not as well!

Or to put it more simply, the world is richer for having such a great opposition to spirituality. It makes people think...a damn good thing that!!

Matt

[Logan]

Quantum physics is proving that there is a god or at least the divine. What they are learning is that electrons are both particle and wave. Their characteristic depends on who is viewing them. They are learning that consciousness affects our surroundings. In essence "you create your own reality" is a very literal thing. In his book "The self aware universe: how consciousness creates reality" Amit Goswami (a quantum physicist) goes through all the experiments they are doing and explains their results.

So God or the divine is your consciousness which is a consciousness shared by everyone. We however view our consciousness as our own because that is how we are hardwired. We are supposed to see ourselves as individuals because that is how the human learns best, within the realm of a dualistic structure.

As far as evolution goes sure it is a great theory that actually makes sense to me. However do I think it was a random thing? ABSOLUTELY NOT! One thing science tells us is that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". So in order for evolution to happen it must have been set in motion by something, and that something must have been set in motion by something...and on and on. That is intelligence. to get things to move and happen it requires intelligence. Intelligence is the sign of consciousness. Even the electron has intelligence, because it KNOWS what it is supposed to, and because it DOES what it is supposed to shows that the consciousness applies the intelligence. This is the essence of God or the divine, call it what you will.

[Trigger]

I pity Darwin because I feel he has been demonised for something he never set out to do, which was prove God didn't exist! infact I think God wasn't part of his research.
What he found was only that the age of the Earth was questionable and that animals had varied because of location. When he finaly published his 'Origin' hee had pondered publication for many years because he knew he would face a basklash for him and his family. His publication only surfaced because a scientist who had done less reseach was ready to publish and he didn't want to be accused of stealing somebody elses work.
He lost his faith not because his work proved to him that a greater force wasn't there but because he lost his young daughter. He had struggled to cure her and when he believed she was getting well she slipped away from him. Devastated he struggled with his broken heart and worked hard to keep his marriage in tact with a wife who was devastated at the loss of a daughter and her husbands faith. They agreed to be together and set faith issues aside because of the deapth of love they shared.

I admire this man but feel that Evangelical Christianity has failed to understand just what Darwin really meant and exatly what he feared from them when he revealed his lifes work. He has become the tool of those who wish to battle over proving the existance of or non existance of God.

Imagine how he must have felt? or how he would feel today?

[oth]

Now let us replace the word reality with perception. religion provides a perception of a reality that is shared by many. It is a "reality" whether atheists want it to be or not.

Likewise the Atheist perception is also a "reality" whether Religious types want it to be or not.

reality is perception, nothing more and nothing less. If a person hears a small bump in the night they might say that it's the fairy folk coming around and doing mischief. Who am I to say otherwise? This persons perception of that noise gives rise to their reality.

Why does it create so much tension for Atheists to think that there are millions of people on the earth who believe in God? And conversely why does it piss off so many Christians when Atheists say there is no God? It really shouldn't but it does. the reason it does is that both are closed minded. the Antithesis of one's perception has been challenged and no one likes their reality challenged.

1-i disagree.Religion replaces reality for many,unfortunately.
Religion is where your beleifs/religion conforms your reality when it should be,reality conforms your beleifs.

2-" tension for Atheists to think that there are millions of people on the earth who believe in God? And conversely why does it piss off so many Christians when Atheists say there is no God?"

The answer to that is because Atheists are much more likely to be right.
As far as reality is concerned.Religious folks have been wrong about jesus coming back to earth for 2000yrs.Its like arguing with a kid saying hes going to run faster than a porsche-one day.Its absurd.Its not reality.The reality a human is never going to run faster than car just as
jesus is never coming back.Atheists are living in reality and christians are living in a dream.

I dont disbeleive in afterlife or a god but islam,christianity and judaism do not offer anything substantial as far as reality is concerned.Much of what they do purport is really bad superstition.







but in order to disprove God, one could no longer really be a scientist because in order to disprove God, you'd have to go by clearly unscientific means

[NicDots]

What is reality anyway? I have always wondered. I have been getting cozy with my Buddhist readings again and have noted that to the Buddha, a permanent self and soul is illusory and what keeps a person suffering. Who knew that you could be attached to your own soul? How do you become un-attached from it? Buddhism is fascinating, but sometimes it is a downright esoteric quagmire for my brain. I suppose this is where mono-theism and Buddhism clash. Mono-theists are so involved with the afterlife and the destination of their souls, they will suffer forever.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Hi Nicole

Yes there are some things that take digesting aren't there.

Buddhism to me has the kindness and forgiveness of Christianity but with the realism often found in atheism.

In Zen Buddhism, there is no insurance deal with worrying about future or past actions. It is all about right now!

Mattxxx

[Ritchie]

Hey guys .. i have stayed out of this discussion becuase i really don't have a lot to offer up , but i have a question ok .. and that is why do folks feel they need to have a 'god' ? Is a weakness that they have in their personality and they need to seek help and guidance from a higher force or power ? I realise i probably look totally ignorant by asking these simple questions .. but it's not that . I am serious . I totally believe we path the way to our own destiny and what we do and act and behave will have an impact on what happens to us in our lives . I also fully believe and know that I can gain inspiration from simple good things in life and that will keep me positive and leading a wholesome and honest life and i did'nt need to go to church to get it . I get a good feeling from reading a book Melissa bought me all about Taoism , that makes sense to me and i understand it for the most part ..

So why do folks need a "god" ?

[Logan]

Now let us replace the word reality with perception. religion provides a perception of a reality that is shared by many. It is a "reality" whether atheists want it to be or not.

Likewise the Atheist perception is also a "reality" whether Religious types want it to be or not.

reality is perception, nothing more and nothing less. If a person hears a small bump in the night they might say that it's the fairy folk coming around and doing mischief. Who am I to say otherwise? This persons perception of that noise gives rise to their reality.

Why does it create so much tension for Atheists to think that there are millions of people on the earth who believe in God? And conversely why does it piss off so many Christians when Atheists say there is no God? It really shouldn't but it does. the reason it does is that both are closed minded. the Antithesis of one's perception has been challenged and no one likes their reality challenged.

1-i disagree.Religion replaces reality for many,unfortunately.
Religion is where your beleifs/religion conforms your reality when it should be,reality conforms your beleifs.

2-" tension for Atheists to think that there are millions of people on the earth who believe in God? And conversely why does it piss off so many Christians when Atheists say there is no God?"

The answer to that is because Atheists are much more likely to be right.
As far as reality is concerned.Religious folks have been wrong about jesus coming back to earth for 2000yrs.Its like arguing with a kid saying hes going to run faster than a porsche-one day.Its absurd.Its not reality.The reality a human is never going to run faster than car just as
jesus is never coming back.Atheists are living in reality and christians are living in a dream.

I dont disbeleive in afterlife or a god but islam,christianity and judaism do not offer anything substantial as far as reality is concerned.Much of what they do purport is really bad superstition.







but in order to disprove God, one could no longer really be a scientist because in order to disprove God, you'd have to go by clearly unscientific means

how is it that Atheists are likely to be right? /you see them as being the most correct in their assumption, and it is just that because neither side has conclusive proof. For every Atheist that says God does not exist there is a Christian that says he does and truly believes it. So how can an Atheist be the more correct? Based upon what standard?

[Trigger]

So why do folks need a "god" ?

As a lifelong non-believer I have yet to find myself needing anything greater than that that I get from within. Most people I know are atheist but none of them feel any ill towards the christians we know.
I put this down to the fact that I live in a very atheist country and where faith exists it is very mixed wih others who worship one or multiple Gods.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

So why do folks need a "god" ?

As a lifelong non-believer I have yet to find myself needing anything greater than that that I get from within. Most people I know are atheist but none of them feel any ill towards the christians we know.
I put this down to the fact that I live in a very atheist country and where faith exists it is very mixed wih others who worship one or multiple Gods.

I know officially we are an Anglican country, but it certainly doesn't feel so with so many different nationalities around belonging to such diverse beliefs.

I think you are right, there are many atheists here too.

I have to admit while I find the Christian channels on cable (from the US) a little over the top, I don't think a thing like that would be made here.

Matt

[NicDots]

I think the Christian channels on TV can sometimes be a bit much too, honestly. I suppose that's just because the Christianity I have been brought up with was a bit more austere and formal. No one at church speaks in tongues, handles snakes, or participates in alter calls. In fact, my church I think has the setting that Oliver Cromwell would probably approve of.

I actually heard that England is more Catholic now than Anglican. I also heard that Tony Blair converted to Catholicism! Elizabeth I and Henry VIII must be rolling in their graves.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

I think the Christian channels on TV can sometimes be a bit much too, honestly. I suppose that's just because the Christianity I have been brought up with was a bit more austere and formal. No one at church speaks in tongues, handles snakes, or participates in alter calls. In fact, my church I think has the setting that Oliver Cromwell would probably approve of.

I actually heard that England is more Catholic now than Anglican. I also heard that Tony Blair converted to Catholicism! Elizabeth I and Henry VIII must be rolling in their graves.

Hi Nicole

No it is predominantly Anglican still. Yes Tony converted to Catholicism though.

Nicole something funny for you. When I was 18 I was 'tricked' (it is a long story)into going to a Born Again Christian Church service, and s number of people began to speak in tongues while the Sermon was coming to an end.

What was hilarious was the quasi vicar signaled for everyone to stop and get back into the service...he clearly had, had enough of this section.

one guy continued and he called out with a perturbed look

"DEREK!"

The guy said "oh sorry" and looked a bit embarassed stopped his talking in tongues and the service continued. From that moment on I struggled to keep control and ended up stuffing a hanky in my mouth through fear of laughing.

What tickled me was here was a man supposedly speaking in tongues and in touch with the Lord, the supreme being , yet could suddenly switch off at the drop of the hat!!

Matt