The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

[The Flying Dutchman]

What about transexuals......
It has been examined and their brains do indeed differ from non-transexuals. (maybe a little mistake from god....) If they can't get surgery what should they do? What advice give the bible to these people?

Hi Patrick

I missed this. The condition must have been around too in the time span of the books of the bible.

Matt

Well I really doubt if an old fashioned book like the bible has an answer for these people......

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

What about transexuals......
It has been examined and their brains do indeed differ from non-transexuals. (maybe a little mistake from god....) If they can't get surgery what should they do? What advice give the bible to these people?

Hi Patrick

I missed this. The condition must have been around too in the time span of the books of the bible.

Matt

Well I really doubt if an old fashioned book like the bible has an answer for these people......

Patrick, you sound like you have alot of compassion for these people. I feel for anyone who has to feel the need to play a role because society may frown on the real them

Matt

[Alex]

xx123456

[The Flying Dutchman]

Hi Patrick

I missed this. The condition must have been around too in the time span of the books of the bible.

Matt

Well I really doubt if an old fashioned book like the bible has an answer for these people......

Patrick, you sound like you have alot of compassion for these people.
Matt

Nothing really particular. I once saw a documentary about this. I do think it's possible. But that's a bit 'off-topic' here I guess.
Anyway some of them must be in religion too. Was just wondering.....

[Logan]

REegarding the transexual topic. It is one of mentality. There is nothing wrong with a man's body he just feels or thinks he's a woman.

What about the guy who thinks he is Santa clause. Should we allow him the self dissilusionment that he is indeed santa clause, and allow him to get an operation so he looks like Santa. Or how about the guy who thinks he is Jesus Christ or better yet Charles Manson.

Better yet how about the guy who feels the need to eat human flesh, should we not view that as a rational yearning? Should we not allow him to eat human flesh after all it was "God" that gave him the desire to eat it.

The issue is one of where do we draw the line on waht is acceptable and what is deviant behavior.

As much as I feel for these people and I do feel for them, it is major cognitive dissonance that needs resolution, but I think that dulging in behavior that is not normal is doing them a service.

And Let's face it when they have the operation they are not really women because they do not have ovaries and they never will. Transsexuals are just playing the ultimate fancy dress.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

REegarding the transexual topic. It is one of mentality. There is nothing wrong with a man's body he just feels or thinks he's a woman.
The issue is one of where do we draw the line on what is acceptable and what is deviant behavior.

The first point about mentality. I think it is more than just a state of mind, and more to do with male and female chromosomes. We are lucky in the world that so many people are born with good health and have no issues.

However nature does have lots of examples of all types of different people/animals with all manner of things that are not 'normal'.
I like the analogies, but I would view someone's gender identity a very sincere and most likely a rational quest. Someone who wishes to have an operation to become santa is more likely to be bonkers LOL

The second question...thank God I don't have to make these kind of decisions.

Hats off to the surgeons, religious leaders and politicans for doing difficult things.

Matt

[Logan]

REegarding the transexual topic. It is one of mentality. There is nothing wrong with a man's body he just feels or thinks he's a woman.
The issue is one of where do we draw the line on what is acceptable and what is deviant behavior.

The first point about mentality. I think it is more than just a state of mind, and more to do with male and female chromosomes. We are lucky in the world that so many people are born with good health and have no issues.

However nature does have lots of examples of all types of different people/animals with all manner of things that are not 'normal'.
I like the analogies, but I would view someone's gender identity a very sincere and most likely a rational quest. Someone who wishes to have an operation to become santa is more likely to be bonkers LOL

The second question...thank God I don't have to make these kind of decisions.

Hats off to the surgeons, religious leaders and politicans for doing difficult things.

Matt

I will concede Matt, the fact that some of these cases are indeed genuine where genetic mashups and chromosomes come into play. In those true blue cases I have nothing but concern and a desire to help these people in anyway I can.

However I can not believe that with all of those seeking sex change operations and transvestites that nature has really screwed up THAT much. I think like the guy that wants to be Santa Clause the vast majority of these transexuals are BONKERS.

I think alot of it has to do with the medical profession cashing in on the unstability of people.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

American Horse I think your right.

The psychological testing should be so strict that the differences between a bonkers person (I love that politically correct term LOL) and a genuine case are more accurate.

I want to be changed into a Horse, but mistakedly the medical profession think i am a lunatic

Matt

[Logan]

American Horse I think your right.

The psychological testing should be so strict that the differences between a bonkers person (I love that politically correct term LOL) and a genuine case are more accurate.

I want to be changed into a Horse, but mistakedly the medical profession think i am a lunatic

Matt

I too desired to become a horse and I was angered at their arrogance for thinking me a looney!

Damn Them!!!

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

I can sort the mane out with some hair extensions and the huge male organ is obviously in place for the change over. It is just getting that long nose sorted out.

Oh well lets see what 09 brings. The NHS is getting ever so open minded with their work

Matt

[Logan]

I can sort the mane out with some hair extensions and the huge male organ is obviously in place for the change over. It is just getting that long nose sorted out.

Oh well lets see what 09 brings. The NHS is getting ever so open minded with their work

Matt

ROTFLMAO

[McLowery]

Being presented with a question, that is in two parts and obviously aimed at diminishing atheism as a valid ideology, I was given the chance to answer this two part question and thought my answer to it would also fit right in on this thread as well. What follows is the question in quotes and then my answer.

"If atheism is the real truth, why isn't accepting the truth more helpful for the acceptor? If believing in god is the lie, why isn't spreading the lie more harmful?"



For someone to truly become an atheist it takes quite a bit more than just saying the words "god does not exist". For most believers to say those four words with conviction is probably in the realm of what a true atheist would call a miracle. Atheism is all about man's belief in himself and the ability to accept himself at face value. The luxury of throwing one's ignorances away by offering them up to some supernatural righter of wrongs doesn't exist for the atheist. The atheist remains ignorant only until he decides to become educated. All of the atheists decisions, actions and failures are his own and no one or no thing can ease this facet of being an atheist. One of mans biggest reasons for the invention of god was his fear of death and the idea that there is nothing more after he dies. This antiquated perception is also thrown away by the atheist. He knows life is finite, therefore it becomes more valuable to him and the idea of nothing after ones death is fully acceptable and death is just as needed as being born for the propagation of the species.

The truth (that god does not exist), the way you present it in your question is virtually insurmountable for someone who is indoctrinated into a god based belief structure. They have become so accustomed to thinking they are not accountable for their actions which directly comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for their own lives and actions by actually believing that they have the luxury of scapegoating their ignorances on to their god for processing or by saying "Let go and let God" they are redeemed of their actions, regardless. Taking control of their own lives or just the idea of doing so usually causes panic and anxiety within the believer, instantly. They would have to become accountable for every action they ever made from that point on, never again divining help from their non-existent deity or to rely on that infinitely repugnant philosophy of "Let go and let God" ever again. Humans proclaim that they love freedom and they practice free will everyday. Quite to the contrary, I'm sad to say, most people would bitch about what a hard road it is to travel if one wants to remain truly free. To journey that less taken path is to also empower ones true free will by deciding to be truly free.

The lie presented here (that god does exist) IS without doubt more harmful to believe in. Mankind's hatred towards himself and his fellow human beings has been virtually rooted in his ideology of god, and the constant realization that he is an utter failure compared to the "perfect" god he created to model himself after. This line of thinking has brought the human race to the edge of extinction. Even trying to make atheism the ideology of all men by enforcing it led to horrific violence and human suffering. But the fact that violence erupted because of this was wholeheartedly caused by people's unwillingness to accept the truth (the truth mentioned as the first part of this 2 part question) and realize we are all we got and with our know how can do anything our minds are capable of perceiving, without any external help whatsoever.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

Hi Mike

I know we differ on some things but I think it was answered excellently.
One of the things I don't agree with is, is that all believers in God are motivated by a death anxiety. However I suppose that may seem nit picking because I think with a lot of people that could be argued.
I think it must be accepted by myself as a believer (in a supreme being) that, that doesn't also equate to infinity necessarily.

The Anglican churches in England are mostly full of a congregation 60 years and over. Many of whom are recent Church attenders. I suppose you could say it is the realisation of the life being nearer to the end than the beginning; or another way to see it is that their age has given them a different way of perceiving things and they wish to explore things more ie God etc.

Mike who asked you the question and how did they respond to your beliefs?

Cheers for sharing

Matt

[serenity]

I can sort the mane out with some hair extensions and the huge male organ is obviously in place for the change over. It is just getting that long nose sorted out.

Matt

Okay.. now this is getting interesting! Thanks for the visual, Matt! (I think....)

Oh by the way, hello everyone! Newbie member here... enough hiding behind my computer eavesdropping on everyone. Time to make it official and join!
Hi Matt my friend-- it's been quite a while but I can see you are still the same ole Matt! LOL!

[Logan]

Being presented with a question, that is in two parts and obviously aimed at diminishing atheism as a valid ideology, I was given the chance to answer this two part question and thought my answer to it would also fit right in on this thread as well. What follows is the question in quotes and then my answer.

"If atheism is the real truth, why isn't accepting the truth more helpful for the acceptor? If believing in god is the lie, why isn't spreading the lie more harmful?"



For someone to truly become an atheist it takes quite a bit more than just saying the words "god does not exist". For most believers to say those four words with conviction is probably in the realm of what a true atheist would call a miracle. Atheism is all about man's belief in himself and the ability to accept himself at face value. The luxury of throwing one's ignorances away by offering them up to some supernatural righter of wrongs doesn't exist for the atheist. The atheist remains ignorant only until he decides to become educated. All of the atheists decisions, actions and failures are his own and no one or no thing can ease this facet of being an atheist. One of mans biggest reasons for the invention of god was his fear of death and the idea that there is nothing more after he dies. This antiquated perception is also thrown away by the atheist. He knows life is finite, therefore it becomes more valuable to him and the idea of nothing after ones death is fully acceptable and death is just as needed as being born for the propagation of the species.

The truth (that god does not exist), the way you present it in your question is virtually insurmountable for someone who is indoctrinated into a god based belief structure. They have become so accustomed to thinking they are not accountable for their actions which directly comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for their own lives and actions by actually believing that they have the luxury of scapegoating their ignorances on to their god for processing or by saying "Let go and let God" they are redeemed of their actions, regardless. Taking control of their own lives or just the idea of doing so usually causes panic and anxiety within the believer, instantly. They would have to become accountable for every action they ever made from that point on, never again divining help from their non-existent deity or to rely on that infinitely repugnant philosophy of "Let go and let God" ever again. Humans proclaim that they love freedom and they practice free will everyday. Quite to the contrary, I'm sad to say, most people would bitch about what a hard road it is to travel if one wants to remain truly free. To journey that less taken path is to also empower ones true free will by deciding to be truly free.

The lie presented here (that god does exist) IS without doubt more harmful to believe in. Mankind's hatred towards himself and his fellow human beings has been virtually rooted in his ideology of god, and the constant realization that he is an utter failure compared to the "perfect" god he created to model himself after. This line of thinking has brought the human race to the edge of extinction. Even trying to make atheism the ideology of all men by enforcing it led to horrific violence and human suffering. But the fact that violence erupted because of this was wholeheartedly caused by people's unwillingness to accept the truth (the truth mentioned as the first part of this 2 part question) and realize we are all we got and with our know how can do anything our minds are capable of perceiving, without any external help whatsoever.

I appreciate your point of view, I however do not agree. First off Atheism is more likely to be the attitude of "I can do as I please" because after all if I am the be all end all of everything than I have no one to answer to for my wrong doings but me then if I am okay with it then whatever I do is fine. This opens the door to alot of problems.

Secondly atheists love to point out that Wars and destruction have been fought in the name of God therefore God and religion are bad. Let us not forget the wars that were fought in the name of stamping out God. Let us not dismiss the Nazi's and their belief that God was nothing and they wre the master race. Or the Communists when they killed many people in order to stomp out religion in order to bring about a full communist state. Or the many early Christians that were fed to the Lions for sport because the Romans believed that the Christian God was Bullshit. If we give atheists full run will the same fate await the few that still do believe? Maybe maybe not.

thirdly, It is not God that creates ignorant followers it is people who see an opportunity to use God as a means of controlling the masses for power and wealth. The Mormon Church and Catholicism are great examples of this. If you actually look in the Bible Paul teaches the followers of Christ to take nothing at face value, but to question everything. This means to educate yourself so that your faith will be a faith built upon truth rather than useless tradition facilitated by those who seek nothing but control.

I feel sad that people actually believe that when you die that is it. My belief in an after life is confirmed daily by the realization that the universe and all in it is far more vast than I can ever hope to understand. And it is that intricacy of the universe that tells me it was not done by chance. Nothing happens "just because" and science tells us this through the newtonian law that every action has an equal and opposite reaction therefore in order for the "Big Bang" to create the earth then something needed to set the Big Bang in motion and so on.

finally to say that people who believe in God have become accustomed to not accepting responsibility for their actions is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. We believe that we MUST ANSWER TO GOD upon our deaths and we will have full accountability for our actions in this life. Whether they are good or bad we must be held accountable. So their is no dodging it. Let go Let God does not mean to just throw it all to the wind. It menas that letting go of our human pride we must allow God to help us so that we may make right choices and be succesful as human beings.

I really feel that Atheists have been quite successful at perverting what real Christianity is. i hold no Animosity towards Atheists as i believe we all have a right to do as we see fit for us. if that means believing in no God then that is your choice that I will support in hopes that Atheists will support my right to belive in God.