The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:02 pm

more indiginous people (entire tribes) to the rainforest are killed each year than in the entire holocaust.... for the love of money, not God.

But, personally I tend to lean with opposite opinion. I think religion is the one cause that people belive so deeply in that they would do things they wouldn't normally do. You know what they say... nothing is scarier than an idiot with a cause. There really aren't many causes that would make a man strap explosive to his own chest and walk into a daycare full of 2 year olds. Well, i take that back... there are... marital issues, loss of a job... people walk to the edge of the roof of a 49 story building all the time and beg someone to talk em down... some other upset may make em strap explosive to their chest and walk into a daycare full or two year olds. Where the thin line comes in is there are not very many causes, with the exception of religion, that will fill them with the conviction they need in order to actually press the detonator.

Religion is supposed to bring joy, love, a connection with your brother.. and instead it tends to tear down entire countries, end friendships. Yeah, it is still just people who do these things... but he is right, alot of them play the religion card. Alot of people do really evil things because they think that is what their God wants them to do... more acts of violence have been carried out int he name of God even, then in the name of Satan. Anyone else find total irony in that?

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:20 pm

xx123456

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:45 pm

wow.

that's intense.

it's very true, though. There are friendships that have gone south just at the mere discussion of this topic right here in this thread on this forum. *shrugs*

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

highpriestess wrote:more indiginous people (entire tribes) to the rainforest are killed each year than in the entire holocaust.... for the love of money, not God.

90 million people were killed/forcibly starved under Mao and that wasn't cause he had a vision of angels or heard the voice of God.
People hold up religion or a political belief in order to carry out their own will.

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:53 pm

highpriestess wrote: Religion is supposed to bring joy, love, a connection with your brother.. and instead it tends to tear down entire countries, end friendships. Yeah, it is still just people who do these things... but he is right, alot of them play the religion card. Alot of people do really evil things because they think that is what their God wants them to do... more acts of violence have been carried out int he name of God even, then in the name of Satan. Anyone else find total irony in that?

I had an epiphany last night and it has to do with the idea of eternal life. I was sitting, thinking and telling my cousin that because you are born is the same reason you die, they are interwoven like a tapestry. I believe the idea that once someone has lived out their natural lifespan and are no longer able to offer their species anything of value death is the mechanism that allows room for a new life with a fresh slate and years of prosperous growth ahead of it. Now my epiphany has to do with how the ruling elite designed the concept of eternal life so that the human race would be taught the idea from birth thus making it's effects on the psyche transparent and hard to see into let alone see past the idea. This then gave people a subconscious de-valuation of their actual life so comlicity would be much easier to cull from the flock. When someone is thinking that they are going to live forever somehow (what they've been told since birth) then their inevitable death doesn't hold as much permanency and the duped become complicit, procrastinators and good little worker bees. I now beleive there is no such thing as eternal life, quite the opposite, we are only on terra firma for a short amount of time and we all should live knowing this and making productive contributions to our fellow man. The idea that we will somehow live forever, IMO, is very detrimental to our existence due to how out of touch it really makes us when it comes to beleiving life is the most valuable gift you've got so treat it a such.

Total scam for the enslavement of the masses to a control doctrine.

I was reading that paragraoh HP wrote above in the quote and just wanted to add, that this is the kind of results people get when the belief in one "true" god, being the only way you are going to be saved after you die is by following this one true god's doctrine and then this makes for the conflict of "My god's better than your god!" I've had this test I devised to prove religion is a farce and it presents a challenge to anyone who would defend religion as valid to present one actual thing. Here it is, Name one prosperous and good thing that came from religion (any) that is indesputablely a positive event for all of humanity. I've been told many koo-koo for cocoa-puff responses but I'm still waiting for a valid offering. My answer is this, Religion has done nothing to benefit the human race because there buildings piled high with evedince to support my claim and a grand lacking of evedince to show even one beneficial aspect to come from religion. Religion has spread hate, violence and intolerance. It's base values perpetuate ignorance in today's more understood world by requiring the believers to accept blatantly bogus notions based solely on antiquity.

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:55 pm

lol. i've been tied to the stake and torched ENOUGH. i'm not touchin that with a ten foot pole... at least until other responses start pouring in. haha!

McLowery · Post by **McLowery** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:46 pm

LOL.... Well from the reaction I got out of my cousin when I told him about my epiphany you are probably doing the smart thing, and laying low.. LOL hmmm... I also wrote that post before I took my nap today.. LOL Although I could have softened a few sharp edges, I'll stand by what I say in it.. Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:07 pm

yeah, i think i have done my share of damage around here in the past two weeks, i'm gonna slide over into the passenger seat for a lil while and let you take the wheel. lol.

please try not to get us stuck in the ditch

Randy Magic · Post by **Randy Magic** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:17 pm

From the age of 13 to 30 we have no record of what he was up to.

There has to be an explanation...try this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5232169561

Or, just Google "Zeitgeist: part 1"

This seemed like an interesting thread and thought I'd share - please, no flames!

Best,
Gary

Paiste2002 · Post by **Paiste2002** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:23 am

I think the problem with christianity lies within the modern church. They have forgotten Jesus's teachings and instead but money and power above the message of kindness, love and compassion.

To me you can choose to believe in whatever you wish to or to not believe. But I look at my faith this way lets say at the end of my life there is nothing, what harm did it cause because the teachings inside the bible taught me how to live a honorable life and show compassion and love for your fellow man. Leave the world a little better place than you came into it, regardless of race, religion or creed.

Now on the flipside of that coin what if god is real, where will all of you stand?

And for the record Highpriestess I sincerely appologize about the trash talk in that thread. I got carried away with it and typed some vicious things and yea I enjoy the chaos and it's somethign I am working on. So please forgive me. I am man enough to admit that I was wrong there.

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:16 pm

i'm going to let the Priestess side of my psyche prevail, and forgive you.

But just so you know... the "chicked out" piece of my psyche still wants to grab you up and give you shaken baby syndrome.

Randy Magic · Post by **Randy Magic** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:42 pm

Matthew wrote:
Randy Magic wrote:
From the age of 13 to 30 we have no record of what he was up to.
There has to be an explanation...try this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5232169561

Or, just Google "Zeitgeist: part 1"

This seemed like an interesting thread and thought I'd share - please, no flames!

Best,
Gary
Hi Gary

Great to have you in the UR theology discussion

That is an interesting video. My Pagan friend who I drink with showed me that several months back with a real sense of "take that Matt!!!" but there are lots of things that are incorrect in it.

I sent her this back

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPaXoZTLn ... re=related

I am neither a Pagan or Christian.

Mind you Gary the numbers theme cannot be ignored. Like the importance of 12 etc.

Great to see you here!

Matt

Hi Matt -

Yeah, much of the video you provide is addressed by the makers of Zeitgeist here: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/q&a.htm

They also provide a bibliography of their source material here: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm

I have to say that, as an Agnostic, this film is very accurate in several respects - especially about the worship of the sun, God's sun. I have studied Religion, Sociology, Anthropology, and Philosophy for years and found it interesting that the film pieced together a fairly good argument for the mythology of religious faith. In fact, when you think about it, what makes Jesus more "real" than Joseph? or Horus?

I have a strong feeling that nobody alive today was around back then, so, I have two choices:
1) accept blindly a book written by man, supposedly at the direction of God, when man have proven himself time, and time again to not only be fallible, but to be manipulative, selfish, greedy, and power-hungry. And, Religious texts have been responsible for more bloodshed than any other single reason in history. Finally, there are few true Christians today, IMHO, that actually practice the supposed teachings of Jesus. Sorry, but the ability to "hate" is not something Jesus taught.
Or,
2) make up my own mind about what my spiritual beliefs are based on my knowledge and understanding of the world, how it works, and the historical record.

I choose option #2. When I think of the thousands of years our species has been on Earth, and the evolution of the species - it makes perfect sense that we worshiped the sun, and understood the stars and other heavenly bodies. Someone once told me, that to "define God, is to belittle the idea of God," and I believe that. Far too often religion has been corrupted, manipulated, and altered for reasons related to desires of men. Did you ever wonder how the Protestant Reformation happened? Look it up, very interesting story that underscores my point.

I will say that the film glosses over stuff, and leaves many questions unanswered, but, I would say the film does this much less that the Bible does. Scripture, is by definition "religious text," which is attributed to all "sacred text" regardless of religion. So, what makes the Bible more correct than the Torah, the Sruti, the Theravada, the Daozang, the Yasna, and others? The people make the difference. So, is it possible that Religion is just one big power trip brought to you by what ever cache of people are in power at any given time. Remember, the Qur'an is widely accepted, but was created only 1300 hundred years ago; and, Western Religion conspicuously avoids discussing the populations of North and South America, which pre-date the Judeo-Christian belief system, and who embraced their own sets of beliefs and Gods to worship.

All I know is what works for me. I also know that the sooner we all understand that we are at this grand reality party together, the sooner religion will cease being what it is today, and the sooner spirituality will be the common faith and bond that brings us all together, rather than driving us all a part.

Best,
Gary

rice_pudding · Post by **rice_pudding** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:55 pm

McLowery wrote: Total scam for the enslavement of the masses to a control doctrine.

I was reading that paragraoh HP wrote above in the quote and just wanted to add, that this is the kind of results people get when the belief in one "true" god, being the only way you are going to be saved after you die is by following this one true god's doctrine and then this makes for the conflict of "My god's better than your god!"

We can only try to live as good a life as we can, and do the best we can for those around us.

If there is a "God" type figure presiding over the universe then he may choose to save us based on us living in tune to above belief. But if he doesn't maybe he's not a God worth believing in. We have free will, and thats not something that logicaly accomodates a strict devotion to ten commandments etc. You reap what you sow...

I have to say i also find organised religion pointless. Granted it creates a support system and a community of love and friendship around an ideal. But it is only replacing something that should already be present in our society.

You dont need to wear a crucifix or attend service to show another human being compasion. Likewise would someone only drop a homeless guy some cash and wish them luck if their religion told them to? Such things should be basic human instinct, but somehow they've been eroded over the years.

If there truly is one God then he/she/it is probably wondering why there are so many interpretations of him/her/it and why we're all to dumb to realise it doesn't matter.

Rob

highpriestess · Post by **highpriestess** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:56 pm

absolutely!

edit: i posted that to randymagics post. but rice and i were posting at the same time. - i havent read rice's yet, but i wanted to clarify which post i was addressing.

rice_pudding · Post by **rice_pudding** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:59 pm

highpriestess wrote:absolutely!

edit: i posted that to randymagics post. but rice and i were posting at the same time. - i havent read rice's yet, but i wanted to clarify which post i was addressing.

all this posting gets confusing huh!