The Religion, Atheism and Science Discussion

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:58 pm

Hello Everyone. I feel the need to bring the conversation back to religion. I am reading in the Bible about Jesus and those whom he healed. One thing I have noticed is that Jesus always asks people weather or not they have faith. then they are healed. I know of no instances where this does not happen. My question is that could this be Jesus referenceing the laws of attraction. It is not he that heales but the inflicted person that heals themselves through their BELIEF that he can.

Is this what Jesus refers to in the Gospel of Thomas in the nag hammadi when he says "If you bring forth what is within you, what you
bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

In other words know that you are holders of the power to heal and to save yourselves it is through the adoption of Jesus as teacher and leader that we can come to this realization.

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:26 am

Hi Logan

great to see you back at URXX

I am going to have to think about that as it is 0721 and I have to go and teach such classics as 'Pease Pudding Hot' shortly

I recently bought the Gosepl of Judas though, and while it is written later than the four gospels it does show a lot about Christianity in the period it is allegedly written.

It also portrays Judas and Jesus as the best of friends and the betrayal as almost an agreement beyween them, as it is a necessity of the Christian story to be fulfilled.

I thought afterwards, aw Judas wasn't such a bad guy, he was just trying to get a along LOL

Speak soon my friend

Matt

Queen Mama · Post by **Queen Mama** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:50 am

even without reading that.i have always thought that Jesus and Judas had a special relationship,who else than your best friend would you ask to betray you?not ask as in speaking ,but when preordained .

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:40 pm

Agreed Queen Mama. It also allows a deeper look into our relationship with God, Jesus and ourselves. If Jesus had to be betrayed in order to die for the sins of the world, then did Judas really commit sin? Can he really be held accountable for betraying Christ if it indeed HAD TO BE DONE? If he was just following order than what's the big deal?

Post by **Trigger** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:50 pm

I believe Judas has had not enough thought or time put into his actions or the position he was in as JC's closest friend.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:41 pm

I agree. Judas the man and his role in the grand scheme of things needs to be looked at in greater depth, who he was and why he was are very important issues that need to be looked at. we could also say that Satan's role needs to be addressed in more details as well. If Adam and Eve needed to fall in order to fulfill God's command of being fruitful and multiplying then was what he did by tempting Eve really evil?

Satan is an Idea or a way of thought. I believe very strongly in the Taoists way of looking at things. All consciousness is an ebb and flow between two opposing forces. Positive and negative, Good and Evil, call it what you will it all means the same thing. No man is truly good so what the Christians say is correct, we are imperfect beings that are in need of saving. however No man is truly bad so the Christians are wrong in the same respect that makes them right. We don't need saving what we need is leading. If you think about it God would have Adam and Eve live forever in the Garden of Eden. Yes, paradise but in complete ignorance, hence the saying ignorance is bliss. It was Satan who introduced knowledge to man and Woman thus releasing us from the tedium of paradise.

Now one could say that that was a bad thing if you just watch the news or look at a newspaper. However, if we go back to nothing is all bad then we can truly savour our lives in a more profound way.

Its that dance again in order to have good one must have bad, so on and so on. So if we think of that as we read the Gospel of Thomas it all makes sense as to what was Jesus' role and who is God.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:10 pm

Logan wrote:Satan is an Idea or a way of thought.

Satan is actually a being, not simply an idea. He is Lucifer, an angel of God who rebelled against Him.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:29 pm

xx123456

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:25 pm

I have been a Christian for a long time, and to me it simply means, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe He is the Son of God and I believe the Bible is His divinely inspired word, and that Jesus' death on the Cross paid for all of my sins. Alot of what I see, especially here in the U.S.A., that calls itself Christian, is in no way Christian in the sense that I understand it(that is speaking only for myself). God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are real to me, to many times in my life I have seen what God has done for me that either I could not or would not do for myself. I don't expect other people to understand that and I would never beat them over the head with my beliefs the way a lot of people think you have to. God provides a time and place and the right circumstance for everything, especially witnessing. And at least in my case, my relationship with my Savior has been intensely personal and not meant for everyone to see all the details. Everyone has a different path laid out before them, my way home may not be exactly like someone elses, but I know (again, speaking only for myself) when I get there God and Heaven and all that He has promised will be waiting. As I've heard someone say to close his concerts many times.

God Bless You All,
Ted

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:54 pm

Paul Wolfe wrote:
Logan wrote:Satan is an Idea or a way of thought.
Satan is actually a being, not simply an idea. He is Lucifer, an angel of God who rebelled against Him.

I agree Paul he is a being. The idea of Satan becomes a being every time some does something contrary to what they know to be right. But to believe that Satan is a guy who lives in a hell and exists solely to bring souls to hell, or that God is a guy with a long beard and white hair that wears a robe and sits on a throne where angels woship him 24/7 is no more credible than Zeus living on top of A mountain in Greece where he directs the lives of men. The Greeks have what they say are divinely inspired works. Every other culture does as well, what gives Christian definitions more credibility that theirs?

I Believe in God. I believe that Jesus was a wonderful man and a great exemplar to all mankind. if we all followed the teachings of the master the world would be a better place.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:15 am

Logan wrote:Every other culture does as well, what gives Christian definitions more credibility that theirs?

I Believe in God. I believe that Jesus was a wonderful man and a great exemplar to all mankind. if we all followed the teachings of the master the world would be a better place.

I don't want to belittle anyone's belief. everyone has the right to believe as they choose.

That said, as a Christian, I believe God is a very real being. He chose to present Himself on this earth in the form of a man - Jesus Christ - so that man, in his limited capacity to understand the being who is God, could have a representation that they could comprehend.

I've mentioned the analogy before of the farmer who saw some birds out in the snow searching for food. The farmer put an abundance of food out near the barn for the birds, but the birds failed to find the food and were starving. The farmer wished that for just a moment he could become a bird so that he could show all the birds where to find the food they were searching for.

This is the same way the God became man to lead mankind to the gift He had for them. God also granted all of mankind the right to choose to accept or deny this gift.

Just because someone chooses to disbelieve that God is the Creator and that the only path to heaven is through Jesus Christ doesn't mean that Christians are wrong. It simply means that some have chosen the option to not believe and follow a different path.

Ultimately, no one of any faith (or none at all) will know for certain that they have chosen the correct path to eternal life until the moment that their life here on earth ceases. That is why faith is required.

Post by **Stiltzkin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:50 am

Paul Wolfe wrote:He chose to present Himself on this earth in the form of a man - Jesus Christ

wait a minute. wasn't Jesus supposed to be gods son,
or am I missing out on something here ?

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:33 pm

Stiltzkin wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:He chose to present Himself on this earth in the form of a man - Jesus Christ
wait a minute. wasn't Jesus supposed to be gods son,
or am I missing out on something here ?

No your not missing something. Traditional Christianity has had contradictions for a long time. What can not be explained away is simply called a mystery and if you don't buy it you don't have enough faith. It's really quite annoying. Read the book "The Self Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami and when you begin to look at God the way it is presented in that Book things begin to become a lot clearer.

Does God save? Absolutely but not in ignorance. Also Read the Gospel of Thomas it will clear things up as well.

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:13 pm

Erm, Jesus is the "son" as well as God. It's the Trinity.

tedeeoo · Post by **tedeeoo** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:10 am

Look, Christianity is really simple, either you believe it or you don't. It's always very amusing to me that so many people try to discount the Bible, when in all of literature, it (the Bible) is the most scrutinized and scholarly analyzed book in the history of mankind. And as much as people may dispute it, nothing in it has ever been definatively disproven, as a matter of fact the New Testament is supported by over 5000 documents that cover several different cultures, but hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone takes their own path.As a Christian I don't have a problem with that, just show my belief the same respect I show yours.