Books

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:21 am

Well yes, the Germans didn't want people to know, but everyone already did. FDR new about the concentration camps for a long time before the US ever entered the war. The rest of the world wasn't as clueless as they appeared to be.
If the Germans REALLY wanted to relocate people so that others would not "find them out" they would have done so in a quicker, more efficient manner rather than have a bunch of starving, dying people march dozens of miles. I think the Germans worse fear were the Russians getting to the camps and liberating them. Russia gets a lot of flack during this time period because of Stalin, but Stalin wasn't a vicious anti-semite (although later in his rule he began opposed to all religion) like Hitler. As the saying going "Stalin's Goebbels was Kaganovich."

shanic · Post by **shanic** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:10 am

Germans fear that the Russians would liberate the concentration camps? Do you have a clue what the Russians did on their march to victory? They committed atrocities on a par with the most evil throughout history!

The media has not allways been what it is now, many peoples in the world were blind to what was really happening at the time, sure it all came out but still.

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:47 am

The Russians liberated many camps, Auschwitz being the most famous. It was not an irrational fear the Germans had.
Recently in the presidential election, Obama was called upon to speak of his white grandparents and he noted that he was proud of his grandfather, who helped liberate Auschwitz.

It made a lot of people go "Wow, we heard he was part Muslim...now he's part Soviet?"

He quickly stated that his grandfather helped liberate Buchenwald, not Auschwitz.
Just because they liberated camps doesn't mean they were swell, upright, nobel soldiers...the fact was that the Germans and the Russians were against each other in all ways after the Nazi Soviet Pact was violated when the Einsatzgrupen hammered modern day Ukraine in 1941.
Oddly enough, the German and the Russians have been at odds with each other since medieval times. I am reading a book on medieval Russia and apparently the word for foreigner/stranger is synonymous with the word for German.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:12 pm

shanic wrote:Germans fear that the Russians would liberate the concentration camps? Do you have a clue what the Russians did on their march to victory? They committed atrocities on a par with the most evil throughout history!

As I quoted previously:

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum wrote:The evacuations of the concentration camps had three purposes:

(1) SS authorities did not want prisoners to fall into enemy hands alive to tell their stories to Allied and Soviet liberators

(2) the SS thought they needed prisoners to maintain production of armaments wherever possible

(3) some SS leaders, including Himmler, believed irrationally that they could use Jewish concentration camp prisoners as hostages to bargain for a separate peace in the west that would guarantee the survival of the Nazi regime.

Yes, the Soviets committed atrocities of their own, but does that mean they could not recognize the evil of the Nazis and fight against it?

Of course the Nazis feared that anyone would liberate the concentration camps. Because what had been speculation, rumor and hearsay could then be proven as fact. There are countless stories of American soldiers who were shocked at what they saw when they entered the camps - even if they had some inkling of what might have been going on, the reality was worse than anyone could have imagined.

Unless, of course you, believe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in which case none of this ever happened...

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:18 am

To do with the above. Has anyone read the Diary Of Anne Frank? A real life account too!!
She is a Jewish girl who kept a record of her time as a persecuted Jew. It is compelling and harrowing and the same time. She lived to just 16 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank

wareagle · Post by **wareagle** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:31 pm

i have. i met someone who freed her concentration camp a month after she died. very sad. every one thinks anne frank is sme kinda heaven child, always does the right thing, but read the journal, she is very much like all of us.

therhoadlesstraveled · Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:26 pm

Despite popular belief, Anne Frank also died of typhoid, an epidemic in Europe during that time. That's what got her, despite the horrible camp conditions. Alot of prisoners wound up succumbing to typhoid, then murder, then fatigue.

shanic · Post by **shanic** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:29 pm

Yes Mathew I have read this, it brings back odd half memories you mention that book. I cannot say that I enjoyed it at the time but I see it in a very different light now.

By the way can I please ask what are the British thoughts on Winston Churchill ?

Cpt Matt Sparrow · Post by **Cpt Matt Sparrow** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:12 pm

shanic wrote:Yes Mathew I have read this, it brings back odd half memories you mention that book. I cannot say that I enjoyed it at the time but I see it in a very different light now.

By the way can I please ask what are the British thoughts on Winston Churchill ?

To be honest for so many years we have been so multi cultural that I thnk in my opinion there isn't a British opinion like there would have been a few decades back.

I don't mind admitting I am proud of Churchill.

Matt

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:08 am

I've actually never read the Anne Frank book! I have wanted to ever since I heard about Simon Wisenthal finding the man that arrested her.

wareagle · Post by **wareagle** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:09 pm

you should very good interesting book. they made a play about her also. i read tht. also showed bout her.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:18 pm

therhoadlesstraveled wrote:Despite popular belief, Anne Frank also died of typhoid, an epidemic in Europe during that time. That's what got her, despite the horrible camp conditions. Alot of prisoners wound up succumbing to typhoid, then murder, then fatigue.

But would she have succumbed to typhoid had she had access a hospital (as opposed to being in a camp where no one gave her medical attention)?

NicDots · Post by **NicDots** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:24 pm

Exactly. Bergen-Belson wasn't a great place and she wouldn't have gotten Typhoid if she had been able to wash on a regular basis and get away from open sores, etc.

Paul Wolfe · Post by **Paul Wolfe** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:30 pm

The Hiding Place is another book to read re: concentration camp survivors. It is an absolutely amazing read.