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 Post subject: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:20 am 
Madman
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I'm sure it's been asked before but for the sake of activity I wanted to ask.

Now I didn't get to experience the impact of Eddie when he debuted so this question is really geared towards the people that did experience it. What if Randy got with Ozzy and put out Blizzard before Van Halen 1? How would that, if any, affected Eddie's impact? Also how would that have affected Randy's? I watched a Phil X video where Zakk asked him if he were a Randy or Eddie guy growing up. Phil said he loved Randy but Eddie had been on the scene for two years before Randy so when he heard RR he thought "this guy is really good too"


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:57 pm 
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They were right on top of each other..The book Van Halen Rising does an excellent job of outlining how EVH developed his style, really well done. This provides us a glimpse of just how the guitar 80's style developed out of the early 70's. Van Halen was on the scene earlier and were relentless in getting a following, whereas QR, Randy had a day time job, so they were more plodding along. There is no doubt in my mind that EVH, Rhoads and Lynch were very much aware of each other, and competitive as to their craft.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:45 pm 
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devorerd wrote:
They were right on top of each other..The book Van Halen Rising does an excellent job of outlining how EVH developed his style, really well done. This provides us a glimpse of just how the guitar 80's style developed out of the early 70's. Van Halen was on the scene earlier and were relentless in getting a following, whereas QR, Randy had a day time job, so they were more plodding along. There is no doubt in my mind that EVH, Rhoads and Lynch were very much aware of each other, and competitive as to their craft.


Thanks for the response but that doesn't really answer my question, or maybe I'm not interpreting your response correctly.

My question is really for the people that were there to experience the impact of Eddie's debut and then of course Randy's debut on the scene. My question how would things have changed, if any, had Randy debuted in 78 and Eddie debuted in 80? Would Eddie's impact be less or the same and if Randy would be THE man and Eddie would be the guy that "was great too".


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:09 pm 
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In my honest opinion EVH was doing it well before Randy they started before Randy had a platform to be seen by the bigger crowd. Yeah Randy was doing it in '78 with Quiet Riot but i don't think he got truely recognised until he hit the stage with Ozzy. I love both players but in all fairness EVH was the man turning heads early on in 78 + 79 and the first VH album was awesome, as was VH-II. They kicked ass on tour in '78 supporting Sabbath and the rest was history.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:26 pm 
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Haha thanks for the response but I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario. Take Blizzard and have it come out in 1978 and then have Van Halen 1 come out in 1980. So for two years we have Randy before Eddie. Would Eddie still be "the guy" even if Randy had hit the big stage first?

Paul started a great thread about what Randy brought to the table in a historical point of view. In my opinion I think Eddie would have still been "the man".


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:37 pm 
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i get what you mean..i think eddie hit the strip in 73 sometime,randy in 75/6.i may be wrong..my opinion is if randy was known first and didnt progress in that window you refer to he might have been blown off by everybody hearing eddie with his first album.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:29 am 
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Tito wrote:
i get what you mean..i think eddie hit the strip in 73 sometime,randy in 75/6.i may be wrong..my opinion is if randy was known first and didnt progress in that window you refer to he might have been blown off by everybody hearing eddie with his first album.


That's interesting, you may be right good sir.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:28 pm 
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Ok, so hypothetically speaking, EVH would still have had the same impact, if he showed up in 1980. Simply speaking, just look at how he changed the guitar manufacturing industry itself...Everyone in the 80's copied his single humbucker...Randy pretty much help create the Jackson guitar line (owned now by fender), but that really didn't take off until after he was gone..


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:57 am 
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devorerd wrote:
Ok, so hypothetically speaking, EVH would still have had the same impact, if he showed up in 1980. Simply speaking, just look at how he changed the guitar manufacturing industry itself...Everyone in the 80's copied his single humbucker...Randy pretty much help create the Jackson guitar line (owned now by fender), but that really didn't take off until after he was gone..


but randys style of guitar was a much harder sell than eddies hot rodded strat....pointy guitars have always been a love em or hate em thing

As far as the OP goes I think their impacts would have been about the same as they actually were. Eddies style was "flashier" than randys so even if they were around the other way people would still go "fuck" when they heard eddie for the first time...I can picture people going WOW when they heard randy then going FUCK when they heard eddie doing all the gymnastic type stuff 2 yrs later


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:08 pm 
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orion_damage wrote:
I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario. Take Blizzard and have it come out in 1978 and then have Van Halen 1 come out in 1980. So for two years we have Randy before Eddie. Would Eddie still be "the guy" even if Randy had hit the big stage first?
Great question!
Imagine Randy's most famous solo in 'Crazy Train' wouldn't have the finger tapping? Same for the IDK solo. Randy would still have done a great job, but in a less fashy way I guess. Randy needed Ed to set the next level imo, I guess without Eddy Randy's impact wouldn't have been that big when Blizzard came out. With a masterpiece like 'Eruption' comming out in 1980 I think Eddy would still be "the guy". It may have been much tougher for Randy if he was already in the spotlights before Ed to get influenced by him and start using the finger tapping etc. So I'm glad Ed came first so Randy could give us 'some piece of Ed' in his own great musical way!

Ooops... I think I interpreted the question not exactly like 'Take Blizzard and have it come out in 1978 and then have Van Halen 1 come out in 1980'. With VH1 comming out in 1980 Ed's playing would still make a huge impact I'm sure!

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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:46 am 
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I think the Van Halen David Lee Roth era of records had a much more commercial/pop sound that appealed to a much, much wider audience than Ozzys music appeals to... So I don't think it matters who was first, either way, VH would have always had more mass appeal.

Randy and EVH comparisons are really like apples and oranges.

Aside from a little bit of finger tapping here and there and some of the flashy tricks in the style of eruption during the spotlight solo, EVH and RR music guitar-wise had almost nothing at all in common.

EVH liked playing in major scales and Mixolydian often, his guitar melodies were for the most part very happy, upbeat, like a wild party, after all VH was known as playing party music for parties, that's why DLR fit in so well, he was the life of the party.

Randys guitar melodies were very dark.
menacing, sad, dark.
moody.
brooding.

Randy relied on the natural minor scale mostly.
His tones and rhythm playing was way more aggressive and darker than EVH.
Randy sounded very classical.

EVH never sounded like he was a virtuoso from the 17th or 18th century... whereas RR did. The Mr Crowley solos remind me of something Vivaldi or someone back then would have composed.

RR was more of a composer.

EVH was more of a loose improviser like Page, sometimes even sloppy.

I like Van Halen for what Van Halen is, and I like RR for what he was with Ozzy... but there's really no comparison between there two styles, they don't have much in common.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:27 am 
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Eddie made music you can dance to, Randy did not. Danceable music is picked up by the masses to a far greater extent than music that is not danceable. Like it or not, it's a fact.

Hair metal is still popular because it is catchy and has a groove that makes you move. Iron Maiden was HUGE for a very short time in the States, great music, no groove. Metallica was HUGE when the black album came out because they got a groove which they have since lost. Zakk did a great job of creating some Ozzy songs with a groove (I Don't Wanna Stop jumps to mind)... Rob Zombie knows groove...

Randy didn't really groove with Ozzy and was on the right track with Quiet Riot but didn't quite get it yet.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:45 am 
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I agree with you on all points Paul.

Randys/Ozzy most groove/pop rock song was Crazy Train. That song was catchy and upbeat enough to have mass appeal.

But with that said, I'm glad Randy never got Mass appeal, I mean I don't care too much for pop bands. I mean I love Poison and CC Deville and they were about as pop rock commercial as you can get, however, my favorite kind of music is that darker kind of music that isn't so simplistic and catchy.

Which is why Randy is still my favorite guitarist of all time.

I like EVH music too, even though he's one of the biggest jerks in rock music, especially what all he said about Michael. I love the Sammy Hagar video Sammy made telling Eddie off about talking smack to Michael.

Also, off topic, but... if yall wanna know what Integrity and being a good all around guy is all about... go to youtube and watch the 2 hour funeral service for Lemmy... that man was amazing, as a human being, much in the same way that Randy Rhoads was or would have been if he could have lived to also be 70+


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:55 am 
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thats on point paul..van halen were pushing danceable songs during the disco craze to a point..enough to shake your ass to but not enough to label it disco.also very good points on romeo2's view.randy could groove but he was stuck in limited bands during his time..one in a million,you lookin at me,are a couple examples for me.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Randy hit the scene before Eddie?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:09 pm 
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I would have loved to have seen Randy live to release a totally instrumental album, like Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Vinnie Moore, Marty Friedman, Paul Gilbert, and Jason Becker have all done.

I often wonder if that's something he would have wanted to do.

Or, if he would have just remained someone like George Lynch, Eddie Van Halen, Slash etc, who never released a instrumental album, only records with vocals?

I like to think there's a 60% chance he would have gotten into instrumental guitar virtuoso albums, since he did compose and record the instrumental Dee, and he possessed all the theory to compete on the same level with Vai and Malmsteen, he loved the guitar itself so much, it's just hard to think he wouldn't have had a lot of interest in doing a instrumental album.


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