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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:57 am 
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Shockwave wrote:
The Flying Dutchman wrote:
skezza wrote:
My favourite performance of Children is the Tribute show. That solo is fucking outstanding.
+1

It's probably just me, but I do not really enjoy Randy's '82 live playing. The sound and fire he had in spring/summer '81 was all gone in '82. (to me at least) Lots of times it sounded like he was just bored and not inspired anymore. And what was done to his '82 rig that destroyed his wonderful '81 sound is still a mystery to me.... So yes, Cleveland '81 (Tribute) for sure is one of my favorite shows!



I have always said this also. Randy just really sounded bored on the diary tour and a lot of his fills were really rushed and felt like he was going overboard on a lot of them, although they still sounded cool as hell. There is a boatload of times where he was a half a beat late or a full beat late getting back to the riff. Just trying to fit to much in and didn't really care, maybe it was his way of pissing Ozzy off?

I think he was moderately enjoying himself all the way up to around the Chicago show as he still felt like he had life him on all the previous diary shows. The energy is definitely there on the official opening of the tour for New Year's Eve.

One thing I don't understand and maybe I would if i read any of the books released over the years, but wasn't he home for a week or two on break before the accident? He surely would have told Delores that he couldn't stand Ozzy or at least say they was huge tension between them. But Delores has always treated Ozzy as if he was Randy's best friend and always spoke highly of him. Maybe randy just didn't relay any of the details and just said he was unhappy and wanted to go back to school?

I don't know if bored is the correct term. Randy was a wonderful musician, a seemingly good person, but I've always got the impression he was also a real professional. When you read stories about him barely drinking and not doing drugs on tour, he seemed to buck the trend, in-so-far that he was very much dedicated to both the guitar and 'work' so to speak. By the time Randy died, he had been touring professionally for several years and had been doing the club scene for longer before that. He was no rookie and therefore, what we consider our dream, he may have begun to view more as a normal day-job. In that sense, he may well have just been 'plodding along' so to speak. Getting up, spending hours practicing his classical guitar before going out on stage and doing 'the job that pays the bills'. That might sound incredibly harsh but certainly all facts seem to point to Randy desperately wanting to move away from his current occupation and continue his classical education.

From many discussions I've had with Frank Santa Cruz who was of course, a very good friend of Randy, including many a phone call from a few years back, it would be absolutely right to say Randy and Ozzy's relationship was strained. Perhaps Frank can explain further as I don't want to say anything that Frank may prefer I didn't, but it was certainly known that things had become difficult. I don't know how much Randy spoke to Delores about it. Can you blame him though? He wasn't particularly well and was probably just enjoying being away. The last thing you want to do, when you're on holiday, is talk about work.

For the first time in years, I had a listen to the Kalamazoo bootleg the other day from start to finish. A number of things went through my head:

1. Who the fuck was the sound engineer and why was Randy's tone so so bad? I remember reading at the start of the Diary tour that Randy was really concerned and unhappy about sticking everything through the PA, something they didn't do on the Blizzard tour it seems. Perhaps this was the result? I don't know but Randy's tone on Tribute and other Blizzard shows was absolutely fantastic. A truly terrific hard rock tone and timeless in the sense that it still stands out as one of the best, even today. His tone on the Kalamazoo show, and others around that time, was very middly and mushy and almost buzzy at times.

2. Randy was uncharacteristically sloppy, had he simply lost interest by this point or was he just having an off day? Randy was always a perfectionist so I doubt it was anything intentional, but perhaps he was also not feeling as driven to put on a show.

3. A couple of his solos, in particular Children of the Grave, really did sound as though his heart wasn't in it. Compare the Tribute solo, where it was possibly one of the finest improvised solos you'll hear on a live album, to the one on Kalamazoo, which seemed a little bit directionless and as if he was just trying to get through it.

4. Mix wise, the keyboards were far too loud and made the rhythm section in some songs really harsh to listen to. I wonder how Randy saw his guitar parts being layered with unnecessary keyboards.

5. If Randy was genuinely unhappy by this point, which I've always got the impression of, why have other band members really not talked about this? Only Rudy Sarzo has spoken briefly about the tension in the band. Nothing from Tommy or Don I believe, and nothing from anyone else associated with the band. Again, Frank may be able to enlighten us all a bit on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Great post...When you have a bad day at work, sometimes you just don't want to talk about it, hence why Randy was apparently pretty quiet during his time off from the first leg of the 82 tour....we know he wasn't super excited to go back on the road, that's for sure. Anyone of us who has ever gigged or played live, sometimes, your just not into it, despite your efforts, it shows...Certain songs, you feel forced to play and you struggle through them, I can only speak for myself, but this happened quite often when I was playing in a local band..perhaps, that's why I don't play live anymore and just play for myself...lol...I think Randy was feeling somewhat the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:03 pm 
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I wonder if the tension was caused by, if true, randy sleeping with Sharon. If Ozzy got any word of it or even had a hint about it he could have made Randy's life hell without ever confronting him about it. Maybe Randy became very uncomfortable in the band after/if this happened and just used everything else as an excuse as to why he wanted to leave.

I would be very curious to know when this supposed hookup between Sharon and Randy happened, if it was during the diary tour then there is your answer right there. If very early on maybe in 1980 then it's water under the bridge I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Tommy Aldridge has spoken a number of times that Randy was unhappy in the band and with his contract. I can even remember a magazine article back in 1987 where Tommy talked about Randy having real concerns about his contract. IIRC, Tommy told Randy that the only way he was getting out of the contract was if he died. And the hookup with Randy and Sharon occurred either in 1980 or early 1981 because it happened before Rudy Sarzo joined the band. Rudy wrote in his book about Randy telling him about it when Rudy first joined the tour.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:01 pm 
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I've never listened to a bootleg and thought Randy sounded bored. There are some shows where he sounds better than others but the guy was human so that's going to happen.

I thought Randy sounded great on the Chicago 82 show. Milwaukee 82 is absolutely fantastic and one of my favorites. I wish we had a soundboard recording from that period.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:34 pm 
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orion_damage wrote:
I've never listened to a bootleg and thought Randy sounded bored. There are some shows where he sounds better than others but the guy was human so that's going to happen.

I thought Randy sounded great on the Chicago 82 show. Milwaukee 82 is absolutely fantastic and one of my favorites. I wish we had a soundboard recording from that period.


Those are both great shows! I love Minneapolis and Kalamazoo the best from the Diary era. Milwaukee is a great show too and the only thing keeping me from really loving it is the quality of the audio. Something about the audio I hate. But the band sounds amazing and Randy killed it as usual

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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:40 am 
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devorerd wrote:
Great post...When you have a bad day at work, sometimes you just don't want to talk about it, hence why Randy was apparently pretty quiet during his time off from the first leg of the 82 tour....we know he wasn't super excited to go back on the road, that's for sure. Anyone of us who has ever gigged or played live, sometimes, your just not into it, despite your efforts, it shows...Certain songs, you feel forced to play and you struggle through them, I can only speak for myself, but this happened quite often when I was playing in a local band..perhaps, that's why I don't play live anymore and just play for myself...lol...I think Randy was feeling somewhat the same way.

I seem to remember reading an interview, although I don't specifically remember the timeline on it, that Randy visited Kelly Garni around this time, possibly the last time he saw Randy in fact. Kelly was a full-time paramedic living in an apartment. Randy supposedly visited Kelly and professed is complete jealousy for Kelly's life. Here was a guy living the dream, but was so disillusioned with life that he was bitterly jealous of a friend merely doing a normal 9-5 job. I think that's the kind of guy Randy was, a wonderfully talented musician but perhaps a little bit sensitive to what was perhaps a dark world at the time.

Shockwave wrote:
I wonder if the tension was caused by, if true, randy sleeping with Sharon. If Ozzy got any word of it or even had a hint about it he could have made Randy's life hell without ever confronting him about it. Maybe Randy became very uncomfortable in the band after/if this happened and just used everything else as an excuse as to why he wanted to leave.

I would be very curious to know when this supposed hookup between Sharon and Randy happened, if it was during the diary tour then there is your answer right there. If very early on maybe in 1980 then it's water under the bridge I guess.

I doubt it. Ozzy was still married to his first wife Thelma, and he and Sharon were not necessarily a full item. They'd be dating for about a month or so. I think the whole thing was purely out of jealousy, although it surprises me that Randy got involved with Sharon at all seeing as he seemed to be trying to maintain his relationship with Jodi. That said, I've heard a few accounts that Sharon kept the hookup, completely under wraps for a long time after. In fact, a quick Google seems to suggest she only came fully clean with Ozzy in 2003 when she wrote her book. In her defence, I'm sure Ozzy will have taken the news with complete understanding seeing as he's had multiple affairs since marrying her in 1983. :wink:

Vtrockgod wrote:
Tommy Aldridge has spoken a number of times that Randy was unhappy in the band and with his contract. I can even remember a magazine article back in 1987 where Tommy talked about Randy having real concerns about his contract. IIRC, Tommy told Randy that the only way he was getting out of the contract was if he died. And the hookup with Randy and Sharon occurred either in 1980 or early 1981 because it happened before Rudy Sarzo joined the band. Rudy wrote in his book about Randy telling him about it when Rudy first joined the tour.

Ahh, I do remember reading that quote from Tommy somewhere. Jogged my memory there somewhat, although I wasn't aware that Randy was concerned about the contract. I wonder what his grievances were? I never took Randy to be particularly money driven, but perhaps he was getting a raw deal.... or perhaps his concerns were more focussed on his inability to actually get out of his playing duties. I know for a fact he didn't want to do Speak of the Devil. He was contracted to do 1 more studio album and 1 live album I think? I wonder if he was really unhappy about the fact he was stuck doing this for at least another 2 years, realistically.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:13 pm 
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orion_damage wrote:
Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.

There's a couple with multiple recordings. Ian probably knows better. I think Chelmsford was recorded twice. Minneapolis as well?


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:16 pm 
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skezza wrote:
orion_damage wrote:
Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.

There's a couple with multiple recordings. Ian probably knows better. I think Chelmsford was recorded twice. Minneapolis as well?


Minneapolis would be awesome, especially if the guitar presence is upped a little.

Who's Ian?


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:18 pm 
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orion_damage wrote:
skezza wrote:
orion_damage wrote:
Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.

There's a couple with multiple recordings. Ian probably knows better. I think Chelmsford was recorded twice. Minneapolis as well?


Minneapolis would be awesome, especially if the guitar presence is upped a little.

Who's Ian?

Trigger


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:19 pm 
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skezza wrote:
orion_damage wrote:


Minneapolis would be awesome, especially if the guitar presence is upped a little.

Who's Ian?

Trigger


Okay cool, thanks


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:15 pm 
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skezza wrote:
orion_damage wrote:
Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.

There's a couple with multiple recordings. Ian probably knows better. I think Chelmsford was recorded twice. Minneapolis as well?

There are 2 different boots from Port Vale '81 as well.

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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:55 am 
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The Flying Dutchman wrote:
skezza wrote:
orion_damage wrote:
Speaking of bootlegs, are there any bootlegs that differ from the ones we have here? Meaning same show but maybe a different source or mix?

Just curious since I also collect bootleg tapes of concerts or sporting events and I know sometimes you can find different sources or better mixes.

There's a couple with multiple recordings. Ian probably knows better. I think Chelmsford was recorded twice. Minneapolis as well?

There are 2 different boots from Port Vale '81 as well.

Very true Pat!


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 Post subject: Re: How Randy plays Paranoid and COTG in 82
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:44 pm 
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where would one find the other version of Minneapolis? I'd love to hear that

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