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 Post subject: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to university
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:59 am 
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He pretty much raised the white flag and surrendered when he chose to go to university. My point is that Rhoads didn't believe he could be successful being the owner of his own band because the singer makes it work, not the guitarist. He's not alone. Example: Jimmy Page. He's supposed to be the creative genius but it looks like he couldn't do much without Robert Plants very distinctive voice. Another example: Duane Allman. Basically broke and in debt before he died. The first two albums were flops. He dies tragically and then the Allman Brothers become famous mostly due to a country song ('Ramblin man) by Betts. Now we all talk that Duane Allman is a guitarist superhero.

I'm hard pressed to think of any non-singing guitarist who owned a band successfully while going through more than 1 singer. Ed van Halen is probably the model of fighting the good fight for guitarists. He fired every single singer in his band probably because the money bags (who always think the singer is the only person who matters) were trying to take control away from him. His entire song writing philosophy was centered on the guitarist being the creative juice that mattered.

My beef with Rhoads genius is the same as with Jimmy Page. If Rhoads was such a creative force, why was he seeking security in a university degree? My answer is that he assumed Ozzy would fire him, stop royalties, and game over...I don't think he even believed he could find steady work as a rock guitarist.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:15 am 
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wow wrong on every single point, well ok i'll give you page...welcome to the board, hopefully things will improve

:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:30 am 
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I've changed my mind about van Halen. Its pretty obvious that David Lee Roth is the mastermind of van Halen. van Halen sells because of David Lee Roth and no-one else.

Getting back to Randy Rhoads...I think its pretty much the same old story....people went to see ozzy, not randy.

Its the guitarists dilemma....unless you stumble across one of those 1 in a million distinctive voices to work with, its impossible to forecast whether one can earn a living playing a guitar or any combination of instruments.

Fans like to pretend that Ozzy was dependent on Randy Rhoads. But it was more likely the other way around and that explains why Randy pretty much quit. Other than Iommi and Black Sabbath, I can't think of a band with a revolving door singer position that had success.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:22 pm
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Randy most likely want to quit because his real heart was in bettering and pushing himself, not because he thought we wasn't good enough.

He came from a teaching background (like myself) and as a teacher 9 times out of 10 you are always constantly looking to learn.
quite ironic really when you teach!

The "Ozzy" show wasn't what he wanted to do towards the end (this has been documented on many occasions) and he decided he wanted to go back and push himself. He could have walked back into the limelight whenever he wanted to.

So I am afraid I will have to respect your point of view but I too disagree with it.

He wanted to quit because it wasn't for him. Learning and pushing himself further was.

Welcome to the board too!


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:54 pm 
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rdg wrote:
I've changed my mind about van Halen. Its pretty obvious that David Lee Roth is the mastermind of van Halen. van Halen sells because of David Lee Roth and no-one else.


You are new to music? Van Halen sold better after Dave than with Dave. Without Ed Van Halen would have been the David Lee Roth band, and we know how well that went.

rdg wrote:
Getting back to Randy Rhoads...I think its pretty much the same old story....people went to see ozzy, not randy.


Only because Ozzy was known from his time in Black Sabbath and Randy was unknown. Without Randy and the band writing the songs, Ozzy wouldn't have gone anywhere, either.

rdg wrote:
Fans like to pretend that Ozzy was dependent on Randy Rhoads. But it was more likely the other way around and that explains why Randy pretty much quit. Other than Iommi and Black Sabbath, I can't think of a band with a revolving door singer position that had success.


Sabbath had zero "success" after Dio...

If you knew anything about Randy Rhoads you'd know he didn't quit, he died. He intended to leave Ozzy and study music because he didn't enjoy the lifestyle with Ozzy.

I realize you are only here to instigate a fight and this thread will disappear soon enough, but I thought I'd chime in, just for fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:21 pm
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rdg wrote:
He pretty much raised the white flag and surrendered when he chose to go to university. My point is that Rhoads didn't believe he could be successful being the owner of his own band because the singer makes it work, not the guitarist. He's not alone. Example: Jimmy Page. He's supposed to be the creative genius but it looks like he couldn't do much without Robert Plants very distinctive voice. Another example: Duane Allman. Basically broke and in debt before he died. The first two albums were flops. He dies tragically and then the Allman Brothers become famous mostly due to a country song ('Ramblin man) by Betts. Now we all talk that Duane Allman is a guitarist superhero.

I'm hard pressed to think of any non-singing guitarist who owned a band successfully while going through more than 1 singer. Ed van Halen is probably the model of fighting the good fight for guitarists. He fired every single singer in his band probably because the money bags (who always think the singer is the only person who matters) were trying to take control away from him. His entire song writing philosophy was centered on the guitarist being the creative juice that mattered.

My beef with Rhoads genius is the same as with Jimmy Page. If Rhoads was such a creative force, why was he seeking security in a university degree? My answer is that he assumed Ozzy would fire him, stop royalties, and game over...I don't think he even believed he could find steady work as a rock guitarist.


Welcome, troll.

I suggest you spend some time reading the board....perhaps to get up to speed on a few things.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:

You are new to music? Van Halen sold better after Dave than with Dave. Without Ed Van Halen would have been the David Lee Roth band, and we know how well that went.



That's actually incorrect Paul. Roth sold over 50 million with Van Halen and Hagar just over 40.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:15 am 
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Hagar only sold Van Halen due to curiosity. Same as Glen Frey's solo career.

Ed actually did try to just plug in singers as he saw fit and do everything himself. The result was disaster. Nobody is going to buy "songs" like 'Eruption'.

When George Harrison ran through his backlog of beatles work, he flopped.

Maybe Slash is the only guitarist who can make a living writing and performing songs independent of a notable singer. I don't follow him at all.

I'm not bashing Rhoads. I think he acted logically. He couldn't sing well enough so he went into something where there is no singing: classical guitar.

I've just never seen a non-singing rock guitarist who could produce finished songs with mass appeal (> 50,000 units) and do an album every 6 months. Don Felder of the Eagles couldn't produce 1 *finished* song.

And as far as I know, neither could Randy Rhoads. He couldn't write lyrics and perhaps even the basic germ of an idea never happened with him.

David Gilmour (who could sing well enough I guess) was a flop as a solo career.

Would people have come to see "The Randy Rhoads Band"? I don't think he would have drawn any bigger crowds than David Gilmour.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:08 am 
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rdg wrote:
Hagar only sold Van Halen due to curiosity. Same as Glen Frey's solo career.



hagar era VH sold because it was VH and sammy was a the singer in a kinda biggish band before VH

luckily drummers seem to have better success with solo careers .... see DON HENLEY


is this romeo rose??


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:31 am 
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dfanucci wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:

You are new to music? Van Halen sold better after Dave than with Dave. Without Ed Van Halen would have been the David Lee Roth band, and we know how well that went.



That's actually incorrect Paul. Roth sold over 50 million with Van Halen and Hagar just over 40.


VH had more hits with Hagar, not with Roth, that's what I was getting at. Dave without Ed didn't do much, even having Vai wasn't enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:33 am 
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rdg wrote:
I'm not bashing Rhoads


Really? Sure sounds like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:29 am
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I read somewhere that Randy was getting offers from New York to do session work and the he was interested in doing that for a little while.

In my opinion, a "successful" guitarist in the music industry is one who makes money. Even if Randy went on to study classical for a few years, he could have supported himself with session work and lessons, and maybe the occasional reunion show with Ozzy or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:44 am 
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sytharnia wrote:
is this romeo rose??


My thought exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:20 pm 
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kamalayka wrote:
I read somewhere that Randy was getting offers from New York to do session work and the he was interested in doing that for a little while.


Never heard that, but sure, it could be a possibility :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rhoads the guitarist superhero who quits to go to univer
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:05 am 
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kamalayka wrote:
I read somewhere that Randy was getting offers from New York to do session work and the he was interested in doing that for a little while.

In my opinion, a "successful" guitarist in the music industry is one who makes money. Even if Randy went on to study classical for a few years, he could have supported himself with session work and lessons, and maybe the occasional reunion show with Ozzy or whatever.


Very well said.

I had heard the same thing, but not sure where.


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