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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:23 am 
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not quite sure what is being asked here? What was Randy Rhoad's historical impact in regards to what? In terms of world peace, i guess not that much. In terms of hard rock or metal guitar playing, it was and still is huge. He truly fused classical and hard rock to produce a sound and style that's as fresh sounding as when it was first released. Funny, as i watched the most watched program ever a few weeks ago, the Super Bowl, with 114 million viewers, as the New England Patriots were running on the field to start the game, take a guess what was booming over the stadiums sound system. you got it, the opening riff of CRAZY TRAIN, and even better, just as Ozzy was about to sing the first verse, walah!, they had spliced it out, and went right into Randy's solo. I loved it, talk about staying power. Shame that most don't know who it was playing that. Only people that love hard rock or metal would know though. In case anyone hasn't noticed, that's not a genre of music that has never been popular, and today, it is practically non existent. Go ask anyone in their 20's or even 30's today who Ritchie Blackmore is, even money they have no clue. Hendrix, EVH, etc simply have no relevance in "today's" music. Randy took the guitar farther than anyone has to this point, and he got stopped in 1982. Everyone after him to me did nothing special. His live playing was second to none, he didn't need no can of lighter fluid or guitars that shot fireworks out of the end of it to amaze us with his playing. Just his bare hands. People who play guitar are just a very small niche in terms of the world of music, but within that group, Rhoad's def left his mark.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:23 pm 
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strontium90 wrote:
not quite sure what is being asked here? What was Randy Rhoad's historical impact in regards to what?


Well I assumed that went without saying, so: What is Randy Rhoads' historical significance to his chosen field, which was guitar playing?

strontium90 wrote:
In terms of hard rock or metal guitar playing, it was and still is huge. He truly fused classical and hard rock to produce a sound and style that's as fresh sounding as when it was first released.


That fusion had been done before him, by Blackmore, Roth, Schenker... so to me, that isn't his historical significance - or what makes him stand out when looking at the history of guitar players in rock.

And the fact that what he played still sounds fresh just goes to show that it wasn't picked up and run with by others. Eddie brought tapping to the masses with Eruption. In the eighties everyone tapped, it was a cliche used to the point of it now being considered passe. That is evidence of Ed being influential - everyone copied him.

strontium90 wrote:
Funny, as i watched the most watched program ever a few weeks ago, the Super Bowl, with 114 million viewers, as the New England Patriots were running on the field to start the game, take a guess what was booming over the stadiums sound system. you got it, the opening riff of CRAZY TRAIN, and even better, just as Ozzy was about to sing the first verse, walah!, they had spliced it out, and went right into Randy's solo. I loved it, talk about staying power. Shame that most don't know who it was playing that. Only people that love hard rock or metal would know though.


The Patriots have been doing that for years and even had Ozzy and Zakk perform live prior to one of their games. And, for the record, most people who love rock/metal would know it''s an Ozzy song, but not who the guitar player was. The Pats picked the song because it's powerful and popular. It's been played at nearly every NFL game since the 90's. As has Welcome to the Jungle, Hell's Bells and Enter Sandman... metal is still popular, just not to the level it once was.

strontium90 wrote:
In case anyone hasn't noticed, that's not a genre of music that has never been popular, and today, it is practically non existent. Go ask anyone in their 20's or even 30's today who Ritchie Blackmore is, even money they have no clue. Hendrix, EVH, etc simply have no relevance in "today's" music.


Do you remember listening to the radio in the 1970's? Nobody knew who Ritchie Blackmore was then, either. They knew the name Deep Purple and that one song that caught the ear of the masses. Disco, pop and funk were the order of the day until Van Halen kicked everyone's ass. It took a couple years, but guitar based music became HUGE in America. And, just like all things it died out to some extent. But it was pretty big in the late sixties before dying out for a while, too. It'll be back.

strontium90 wrote:
Randy took the guitar farther than anyone has to this point, and he got stopped in 1982. Everyone after him to me did nothing special. His live playing was second to none, he didn't need no can of lighter fluid or guitars that shot fireworks out of the end of it to amaze us with his playing. Just his bare hands. People who play guitar are just a very small niche in terms of the world of music, but within that group, Rhoad's def left his mark.


There's what I'm getting at with my question.

Did he take the guitar farther than anyone else to this point? Or was he just really damn good at playing things others had already done? Steve Vai can do things Randy hadn't even thought of, so doesn't he count as taking the playing of the guitar farther? Paul Gilbert can play everything Randy did and then some, so can Satriani or Slash or Zakk or Russ Parrish for that matter. They are not all pioneers and won't all be remembered 50 years from now by anyone who doesn't play guitar, but they are making there name now.

I'm guessing that maybe Randy's influence is heard more in genre's of metal I don't listen to.

I agree with what Tito said:

Tito wrote:
I think his historic significance was very minimal. He did have phenominal stage presence, was way better as a player as far as what we've heard, and he was still finding himself at the time. So I feel what we have heard is someone in transition


To me Randy was a phenomenal player who helped write some great songs. He was a pretty good person and, apparently a good friend to those who knew him. Historically, I feel his importance lies in making it cool to take lessons and learn everything you can about your craft. And he helped create an iconic guitar.

For the record, strontium90, I appreciate your post and was not trying to pick it apart, just give you my point of view.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:03 am 
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@....The Patriots have been doing that for years and even had Ozzy and Zakk perform live prior to one of their games. And, for the record, most people who love rock/metal would know it''s an Ozzy song, but not who the guitar player was. The Pats picked the song because it's powerful and popular. It's been played at nearly every NFL game since the 90's. As has Welcome to the Jungle, Hell's Bells and Enter Sandman... metal is still popular, just not to the level it once was...@

Come on MAN!! Its not just the patriot.. I'M in Canada Quebec, in every hockey game we can hear crazy train !! Even in my small town with the junior hockey club, we hear crazy train.. You hear that song everywhere.. Come on man, it has a reason... I dont hear ED music as often as crazy train

You are telling me that other guitarist before Randy did the classical thing but where are there songs? I dont fucking hear the music much for a reason... Same thing with EDDIE.. HE was not the first one to do the Tapping thing but he is the one who made it popular.. same with Randy.. When you ask pro guitar player.. Randy name come often, not the other guitarists your are talking about.

Eddie is a bigger name, because he got the name of his band in his..... name ! :) if you know what i mean


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:08 am 
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For the record, strontium90, I appreciate your post and was not trying to pick it apart, just give you my point of view.


no problem. For the record, I'm on the wrong side of 55, so i was in my mid twenties when all this unfolded
back in the early 80's. If you detect a bit of annoyance in my post, its just that for years I've seen so much said and written
that is just plain wrong in my opinion. As in most stories, the period right after an event that is usually the most truthful.
As the years go by, the bullshit starts to pile up, and you get bigger and bigger lies.

I recently watched the "God Bless Ozzy Osbourne" doc, and its truly astonishing how Sharon Osbourne
lied thru her teeth about how Randy joined the band etc. Like he was this huge star, and the line to audition
for him was blocks long. First off, i read years ago that Randy didn't even know who Ozzy even was,
until Dana Strum explained he was the ex Sabbath singer, Randy kinda groaned, then politely declined.

Fast forward a year later or so, after Blizzard was recorded and they had toured England, even then Rudy Sarzo
initially declined also. To me , shes the main reason why Randy has been kinda been lost in the real reason behind
Ozzy's initial, critically acclaimed solo career. She was bound and determined to make Ozzy into a successful "songwriter/singer",
no matter who or what got in the way, plane crash be damned.

Watch the David Letterman interview just a mere few days after Randy's death, Letterman doesn't even mention his name,
just calls him "your guitar player". Go forward 20 years later, after she went public about her and Randy supposed affair.
She explains to her talk show audience, that "yes, there was a guy who "worked" for my husband many years ago".
Nice, classy. How about the guy who basically made all of our asses rich, even relevant.
Bob Daisley, Grover Jackson, Karl Sandoval etc, all of em, the all owe a debt to Randy Rhoads.

Sorry, all due respect to Mr Daisley, but those 2 classic records are what they are because of the guitar playing,
not the lyrics, not the bass playing, not ozzys foghorn voice, THE GUITAR PLAYING.
I remember Bob saying in an interview once, that he "wrote the section that Randy soloed over in Crazy Train.
LOL. Really??? REALLY? Good grief. Though he was ripped off by the Arden's, if he was such a "seasoned veteran",
why did he let that happen? This book deal he got, i seriously doubt there's a huge demand to hear about his days in "Chickenshack"
and "Mungo Jerry". We all know what is really the main story. the part about Randy.

Another thing that's really annoyed me over the years, is that i will never for the life of me understand why the Rhoad's family
waited 25 years to do a documentary about him. I understand that many people approached his mother to do a movie on him,
then she goes with someone that's an unknown, then the whole thing turns into a disaster. Very odd decision making, really.
Of all the tragic stories of rising stars being killed, Randy's is in my opinion, one of the most tragic ever.
When James Dean got killed, he was lionized right after it happened. But now, sad to say, his work is generally mocked and ridiculed.
I mean, he really does 'chew the scenery" in those films. Today, though not well known, no one laughs or mocks Randy's work,
he was just one of those rare talents. His story is just so odd, sad, esoteric, weird, all rolled into one.
Ok, I've ranted long enough, to be continued. LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:51 am 
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strontium90 wrote:
I recently watched the "God Bless Ozzy Osbourne" doc, and its truly astonishing how Sharon Osbourne lied thru her teeth about how Randy joined the band etc. Like he was this huge star, and the line to audition for him was blocks long. First off, i read years ago that Randy didn't even know who Ozzy even was, until Dana Strum explained he was the ex Sabbath singer, Randy kinda groaned, then politely declined.


I'm glad you brought this up. As much as people like to say now that Ozzy was a star... nobody knew who the fuck he was. That's why the first tour promos said "Former lead sing of Black Sabbath" because without that it would have been, "Who?"

strontium90 wrote:
Another thing that's really annoyed me over the years, is that i will never for the life of me understand why the Rhoad's family waited 25 years to do a documentary about him. I understand that many people approached his mother to do a movie on him, then she goes with someone that's an unknown, then the whole thing turns into a disaster. Very odd decision making, really.


Here's my take on that. She went with Peter Margolis because he was a student of Randy's. The whole thing went to hell because Sharon is a control freak, a couple mistakes were made and a "fan" cared more about his own moment in teh spotlight than seeing this film come to fruition. The whole lawsuit happened because - and this may cost me a friendship or two - Doug/Kelle and Kathy saw an opportunity to make a good deal of money, which ultimately failed.

quote="strontium90"]Today, though not well known, no one laughs or mocks Randy's work, he was just one of those rare talents. His story is just so odd, sad, esoteric, weird, all rolled into one.[/quote]

Read some of RDG's comments on this thread... :lol:

Randy isn't considered the iconic figure by everyone, to some he's just a guitar player. I'd say most people have only heard one, maybe two of Randy's songs, period. Crazy Train is well known, but, outside of metal guitar circles, what else is? Maybe Flying High Again, but nothing else.

Again, thank you for your comments.

I'm observing Lent and I've chosen to give up social media - Facebook and Internet Forums - for the next 40 days, but in April I look forward to reading more of what you (and everyone else) has to say.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:16 am 
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strontium90 wrote:

Fast forward a year later or so, after Blizzard was recorded and they had toured England, even then Rudy Sarzo initially declined also.


You mean after BOO, the tour, AND DOAM were recorded? It never ceases to amaze me how may people still believe that Rudy Sarzo played on DOAM, you may not be one of 'em but just in case.

Quote:
Bob Daisley, Grover Jackson, Karl Sandoval etc, all of em, the all owe a debt to Randy Rhoads.

EH? WTF has Bob got to do with guitar makers? Sorry folks but you knew that I'd have to stick my 2 cents worth in..:-)

Quote:
Sorry, all due respect to Mr Daisley, but those 2 classic records are what they are because of the guitar playing , not the lyrics, not the bass playing, not ozzys foghorn voice, THE GUITAR PLAYING.


So how come Randy didn't have '2 classic records' with QR?
THE SONGS and the chemistry between all FOUR members of Blizzard make those two classic records what they are. BTW, if there's any respect for Bob Daisley in your post, it's well hidden.

Quote:
I remember Bob saying in an interview once, that he "wrote the section that Randy soloed over in Crazy Train. LOL. Really??? REALLY? Good grief. Though he was ripped off by the Arden's, if he was such a "seasoned veteran", why did he let that happen?


What has being a 'seasoned veteran' got to do with being ripped off? Bob was managed by Don Arden/Jet when he was in Widowmaker in the '70s. They recorded 2 albums, toured the UK & US, and Bob had no problems with the management.

Quote:
This book deal he got, i seriously doubt there's a huge demand to hear about his days in "Chickenshack" and "Mungo Jerry". We all know what is really the main story. the part about Randy.


Really? So why hasn't the RR book been a success?
People who are into Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Gary Moore and Uriah Heep and the other albums/tours that Bob did with Ozzy probably don't agree with your point of view as the second edition of Bob's book came out last year.

You obviously have strong opinions and your 'rant' was an interesting read. Personally I agree 100% with Tito when he said of Randy...

Tito wrote:
he was still finding himself at the time.so i feel what we have heard is someone in transition


I've got a feeling that Randy would agree with that too.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:59 pm 
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sweet!!!finally back up!!thanks guys!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Tito wrote:
sweet!!!finally back up!!thanks guys!!!!


Hey Tito how have you been man it's been awhile since we last spoke


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:45 pm 
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good brother hope your doin good!!


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Apologies for the downtime ;) Mucked up something. All sorted now.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Wow! what a great read, I just read through the entire 7 pages
and their are some great comments and opinions, as for the newer generation of guitar
players out their I think they have it made, with all the technology they have at their disposal now a days.


When I first started playing guitar at age 14, in 1986,87,
their was nothing out their like youtube and computer programs
to slow songs & guitar solos down to help me learn, our generation
had it rough, but their is a lot of talented younger guitar players
out their because of youtube & all the technology.

I had to fix some bad habbits like picking economy to strict back and fourth that I may have learned the correct way from YouTube
if it was around in 1987

I don't know, just my 2 cents I don't comment much on forums
I mostly just read everyone's comments, but if Randy Rhoads
had not been born I would not be playing guitar today.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:19 am 
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Whats peculiar is the whole classical guitar obsession with RR. If you read classical guitar sites today, its really much more depressing than the rock scene which is pretty bad too. Famous classical guitarists drawing no more than 60 people kind of stuff. The tenured guys in universities can't draw 20 people. I think RR always overestimated the appeal of music to even intellectuals. Joe Satriani can really play and he must have enormous knowledge of music theory. Yet, my completely ignorant analysis of Chickenfoot starts with the question: where is the groove, shuffle, or chimes? I don't hear musical genius in Pink Floyds music...I hear the ever pleasant stratocaster chimes, ....U2 i hear that Vox AC30 chimebox enhanced with modulated delay. In led zeppelin I hear a constant groove. I don't think music is that big of a deal to Van Halen fans...its just that to them EVH is some cool bad ass who can also play.

Okay riffs are all that matter? So whats the point of the gothic castles, occult lyrics, dressing like vikings, long hair, etc. with Iron Man and Enter Sandman? Dark Side of the Moon was very popular, ... I don't know why because half the album is empty with silly helicopters, people speaking, gospel singers in the background, ...cheesy tenor sax solos...clocks...this is good music? Can't be a few solos...it has to be the chimes of the strat...How many of the most famous guitar songs (Stairway to heaven, Hotel California) have 12 string parts? Again, chimes...

Chimes, groove, shuffle, etc etc...stuff that Joe Satriani doesn't understand. Maybe RR didn't get it either.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:24 am 
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I believe that randys place in history will be recognised long after we have all ceased to exist, I think his playing/writing will be noticed by a musical academic and his playing will be discussed and eventually become venerated for its quality.
We will have to do all we can to keep his memory alive because his official legacy has counted for nothing so far.
While living musicians quote him in interviews RR has a chance of future generations discovering him. What we ordinary fans have to do is preserve his archive of studio and live recordings.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:04 am 
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When Randy was on tour with Ozzy and playing with many great support acts UFO Def Leppard Motorhead Budgie Raven Saxon Riot etc. The guys would hear him back stage and they'd be blown away by his playing if it was classical or him jamming with his electric guitar. I've spoke to guys like Pete Way Phil Collen Steve Willaims John Gallagher Graham Oliver etc. They all said that they knew he was going to become the next guitar great. He was acknowledge with the Best new guitarist award in '81. Sadly he passed away on the verge of becoming well recognised. Many people say is it because he died tragically that his name became known. Well it probably did at the time and like many guitar greats who die too early they do carry on being loved. But Randy's name is one that many of the younger generation don't know about until people like us on here mention it to the younger guys. A mate of mine who is a great guitarist has just started to really listen to his playing and he said to me 'hey wasn't he a master at his craft'. The guy is 31 and has just really started to appreciate him now.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Randy's "Historical Significance"??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:21 am 
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ozzies lasting career thru touring has kept the music alive . gen public prob dont know who RR is but definitely identify the songs and prob identify zak wylde

Id say RR history sig is tied to Ozzy , plain and simple .

theres awesome guitar work but still its all associated with Ozzy . digging deeper into QR or his tech or unseen footage is only for fanatics .

even if RR lived , the early records are what hed be remembered for


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