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 Post subject: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Why did they choose D#/Eb tuning for DOAM rather than E like BOO?


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Randy said it fattened up the sound...He was messing around with it and they like how it sounded...


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Well if you've read Bob`s book he says they tuned down half step to help with Ozzy`s vocals, Randy said it was for a heavier sound .Both stories must be true ........I think there are one or two songs that aren't tuned down half a step for one reason or another i cant remember which ones.....

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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Also back in Sabbath days Tony Iommi tuned down god knows how many whole steps.Ozzy could've mentioned this to Bob and Randy but that's just speculation....I know Randy didn't like Sabbath at all, but tuning down half a step can make quite a big difference to the tone and feel of an album.Diary to me is very different- darker and heavier than Boo but both great albums in their own right .

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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:11 pm 
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I always heard that the tuner wasn't calibrated properly, so they didn't intentionally tune down, but ended up liking what they heard.


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Yeah ive heard that one too.

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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:55 am 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
I always heard that the tuner wasn't calibrated properly, so they didn't intentionally tune down, but ended up liking what they heard.


There's no way that could be true. Even I can tell when a guitar is tuned down half a step just by hearing it. There's no way pro's like Randy and Bob would miss that, even if the tuner really was miscalibrated, they would know what tuning they are in regardless.

Only SATO is in Standard tuning. All the other tracks on that album were done in Eb.


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:28 pm 
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mojopin70 wrote:
Also back in Sabbath days Tony Iommi tuned down god knows how many whole steps.


Yeah, but that was just because of his rubber fingers :)


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:38 pm 
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dinomite wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:
I always heard that the tuner wasn't calibrated properly, so they didn't intentionally tune down, but ended up liking what they heard.


There's no way that could be true. Even I can tell when a guitar is tuned down half a step just by hearing it. There's no way pro's like Randy and Bob would miss that, even if the tuner really was miscalibrated, they would know what tuning they are in regardless.

Only SATO is in Standard tuning. All the other tracks on that album were done in Eb.


I get your point, but I have to disagree.

There are all kinds of professional musicians who wouldn't be able to tell if they were down a half step if all the instruments are in tune with each other. That's why tuners are sold in the first place. If a musician can tell the difference between E and Eb with just his/her ear, they wouldn't need a tuner. So, yeah, it very well could be true.

By the way, here's the quote I remembered... it's from the Clinic in '82 which was recorded so the source is Randy himself:

Did you tune differently on Diary of a Madman as compared to Blizzard of Ozz?

Yes, we tuned down one half step when we recorded Diary.

Why?

When we were recording the second album, the tuner we had was miscalibrated, and I began to like the sound of being tuned down a half step for some of those songs. A lot of people tune down a half step, but I’d never done it before then. It gives a much heavier sound to the chords, and it just gives you a meaner sound, overall. When we play live, some of the songs are tuned down and some are not, so I use different guitars which are tuned accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:02 pm 
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I think all the stories are true, it was easier for Ozzy`s voice a bit too in a certain key as Bob mentioned. I think he struggled live im not sure he liked trying to sing Over the Mountain as an opener because it was vocally demanding...

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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:07 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
dinomite wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:
I always heard that the tuner wasn't calibrated properly, so they didn't intentionally tune down, but ended up liking what they heard.


There's no way that could be true. Even I can tell when a guitar is tuned down half a step just by hearing it. There's no way pro's like Randy and Bob would miss that, even if the tuner really was miscalibrated, they would know what tuning they are in regardless.

Only SATO is in Standard tuning. All the other tracks on that album were done in Eb.


I get your point, but I have to disagree.

There are all kinds of professional musicians who wouldn't be able to tell if they were down a half step if all the instruments are in tune with each other. That's why tuners are sold in the first place. If a musician can tell the difference between E and Eb with just his/her ear, they wouldn't need a tuner. So, yeah, it very well could be true.

By the way, here's the quote I remembered... it's from the Clinic in '82 which was recorded so the source is Randy himself:

Did you tune differently on Diary of a Madman as compared to Blizzard of Ozz?

Yes, we tuned down one half step when we recorded Diary.

Why?

When we were recording the second album, the tuner we had was miscalibrated, and I began to like the sound of being tuned down a half step for some of those songs. A lot of people tune down a half step, but I’d never done it before then. It gives a much heavier sound to the chords, and it just gives you a meaner sound, overall. When we play live, some of the songs are tuned down and some are not, so I use different guitars which are tuned accordingly.


They 'mis'tuned but they realised they mistuned and liked it anyway so they kept it. So everyone is right is a way. I also agree it wouldn't be possible you tuned down all your guitars without realising the tuner is calibrated 1/2 step down. I could see this happening with 2 or 3 instruments in total but not wIth all randy's guitars + bob's bass guitars + piano etc.


The only song not in Eb of DOAM is S.A.T.O. if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:03 am 
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I always though SATO sounded weird like it wasn't mixed right or it was incomplete


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:17 am 
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The theory of the tuners being out of whack or whatnot i think is pretty comical. I am nowhere near the musicians these guys were and I can tune up to standard and get pretty damn close without a tuner. The guitar feels and plays completely different when a 1/2 step lower. Randy, Bob, the engineers and everyone else would have noticed this if the tuner was off if they were trying to tune to standard but it sounded like 1/2 step lower.

1/2 step lower, thicker sounding, easier to play for most, changes things up and is easier on Ozzy's voice, which he just got done touring the first half of the Blizzard tour so his voice was probably strained as it was at the recording sessions for Diary.

Actually it could easily be settled..Just ask Bob on his website he is always good about answering these questions and may have in the book already..maybe i am wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:41 am 
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Man the tone on randys guitar on little dolls and sato drive me nuts!!!to me they were recorded the same day..


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 Post subject: Re: Diary Of A Madman album tuning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:50 am 
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Shockwave wrote:
The theory of the tuners being out of whack or whatnot i think is pretty comical. I am nowhere near the musicians these guys were and I can tune up to standard and get pretty damn close without a tuner. The guitar feels and plays completely different when a 1/2 step lower.


I've been playing guitar for 34 years and my guitars do not play "completely differently" 1/2 step down. It's a very minor change in string tension. The sound is slightly different. Eb is used when a singer can't hit the notes in standard tuning, ala Van Halen with DLR.

Shockwave wrote:
Randy, Bob, the engineers and everyone else would have noticed this if the tuner was off if they were trying to tune to standard but it sounded like 1/2 step lower.


This tuning issue took place during the writing of songs, so engineers wouldn't be involved. As for the other comment about all the guitars, basses, pianos, etc... during writing, they usually use one instrument, so it'd be simple to have this confusion.

Shockwave wrote:
Actually it could easily be settled..Just ask Bob on his website he is always good about answering these questions and may have in the book already..maybe i am wrong.


I'd think that the words coming from Randy's mouth on a recording would be proof enough. Here's the recording, the quote is at the 10:00 minute mark until about 10:20.



Now Shockwave, I'm not trying to argue with you. I, too, can tune pretty damn close to perfect E without a tuner, but some people swear by strobe tuners, especially back in the very early 80s when the highly accurate tuners we have now weren't so readily available.


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