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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:58 pm 
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LongRhoadsAhead wrote:
Donnie wrote:
LongRhoadsAhead wrote:
Suicide solution doesn't sound like it's from the Southampton show... The intros are different. Could be wrong. Do we know for sure it's the Southampton show?

its not only the guitar solo is from southampton..ofcourse it could be a different show but its definately from the 1980 uk tour.


Oh ok. Yeah that makes sense that it'd be southampton then. if it wasn't then that means audio of another show exists? I thought they only recorded southampton?


Suicide comes from Montreal, the bed tracks, the solo is not of course, they wouldn't be crazy to use the same solo as it was already used on Tribute. If you listen carefully to the beginning and all the little nuances of what Randy and even Tommy is playing, it's Montreal. I can see where people get thrown because after Ozzy introduces Randy, he does this feedback thing and then a slide, into the main riff on the Montreal tape, it's the same slide and riff on the Ozzy Live tape, minus the feedback. Everything else is the same, listen to the drum pattern, the Ozzy intro, Ozzy vocals, even what Randy plays in the verse, it's all from Montreal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:59 pm 
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No, most of the show is not from Montreal. There are many fills that are different. And drums are drums, most of what they did sounds the same from show to show. The only song that is the same is FHA. This is just to much conspiracy theory.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:05 pm 
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dannyahansen wrote:
No, most of the show is not from Montreal. There are many fills that are different. And drums are drums, most of what they did sounds the same from show to show. The only song that is the same is FHA. This is just to much conspiracy theory.


You should compare each song one at a time, back to back, even pausing in the middle of a section and toggle back and forth, you will see there is more than just the one song you mention. I believe Montreal is the core, and with heavy editing, it gives the impression that it's another show, which at the end of the day, is what they wanted people to think. Ozzy was never really happy with the Montreal show to begin with, hence why they didn't use it for Tribute. In this case I don't believe there are too many shows left for them to use, they would have been released already. They have 3 core shows that they can work with, SouthHampton, Montreal and Cleveland. That's it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:13 am 
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Hmmm...If most of this show is Montreal, why keep "Flying High Again" in its original form and then edit the heck out of every other track so they are almost unrecognizable? I worked on and put together CD's of Cleveland and Montreal using the original material and I know the stuff inside and out - and none of the other tracks struck me as that familiar, seriously.

And if you remember, Producer Kevin Churko was quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing) that he had a ton of stuff to work with as Ozzy had a lot of live shows that Sony had in the vault. We also know that they kept the soundboard tapes every night, as Tommy Aldridge has said that he has boxes of live tapes that Randy performed on a lot better than Cleveland or Tribute.

I guess if you really want to prove your point, set up the Montreal show in pro tools and the Ozzy live show in pro tools and compare the songs, measure by measure, seeing if their frequencies or "sound floors" match. What you think to be true with your ears will either be confirmed or proved wrong by your eyes when you look at how the songs compare sonically.

I don't like the edited or messed with stuff at all, including Tribute. I set up the original Cleveland and Montreal shows with a buddy in his studio and using pro-tools we e.q.'d and put the shows together the best that we could. For some of you familiar with my work, I kept the artwork black and white and titled the Cleveland show "Tribute" and the Montreal show "Encore". We used really cool pictures of Randy in front of the castle on the Diary tour on the cover and on the CD itself.

I really would like to see all the shows professionally released in their original form. All of them in a box set or something so we could see how the live show and Randy's playing evolved over time. Now that would be a box set I would pay handsomely for. And it would be really cool if each show was paired up with artwork that went with each show...pictures of Randy and Ozzy tied to those particular shows.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:48 am 
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Bravo!!!!!good points!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:02 am 
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windingrhoads wrote:
dannyahansen wrote:
No, most of the show is not from Montreal. There are many fills that are different. And drums are drums, most of what they did sounds the same from show to show. The only song that is the same is FHA. This is just to much conspiracy theory.


You should compare each song one at a time, back to back, even pausing in the middle of a section and toggle back and forth, you will see there is more than just the one song you mention. I believe Montreal is the core, and with heavy editing, it gives the impression that it's another show, which at the end of the day, is what they wanted people to think. Ozzy was never really happy with the Montreal show to begin with, hence why they didn't use it for Tribute. In this case I don't believe there are too many shows left for them to use, they would have been released already. They have 3 core shows that they can work with, SouthHampton, Montreal and Cleveland. That's it.

I dont want to argue with anybody but your WAY off on this theory. 2 different shows and the sucide solutions are way different with different fills too, infact all the songs are different minus FHA. Theres alot of delay on the montreal show too thats not on the ozzy live show. Max Norman said theres more live RR they have and Kevin Churko said theres more live RR. What would they stand to gain from lying about there claims?

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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:27 pm 
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windingrhoads wrote:

You should compare each song one at a time, back to back,

I did this, the words are different that Ozzy speaks, the fills Randy does are different. Take Steal away the Night or I don't know. At the end of Steal away the Night Randy does a pretty cool fill that I have not heard before. Also the first fill on I Don't Know does not have the scrapy tone that Randy normally does on it. It is different than the Montreal Show. There are many other examples.
And why use the drums and Bass from Montreal when they clearly have another show that they used for Randy's parts? Makes 0 sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:45 pm 
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I think it is completely comical that anyone thinks the live album is mostly Montreal. You can tell within the first 15-20 seconds of each song that each song is not from Montreal..other than FHA.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Except for FHA for sure it's NOT Montreal. I go even further and at times wondering if it's really Randy playing there on that 'Ozzy live' cd ?? Lots of things sound really weird there. Really un-Randy. It starts right away in the very first second of the cd. That 'weak' slide into the main IDK riff. Is that Randy there? :? Check out 20 other boots and you'll hear the difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:16 pm 
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I wouldn't go anywhere near saying it wasn't randy, I think the weak slide may just be the way it was mixed in, or the show is compressed to hell.

I've always had an inkling that it's Randy's guitars from a 1980 show blended with the drums and bass from a 1981 show.

There are many fills missing that randy played seemingly in every show/boot we have from 81 up until the end in 1982.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Shockwave wrote:
I wouldn't go anywhere near saying it wasn't randy, I think the weak slide may just be the way it was mixed in, or the show is compressed to hell.

I've always had an inkling that it's Randy's guitars from a 1980 show blended with the drums and bass from a 1981 show.

There are many fills missing that randy played seemingly in every show/boot we have from 81 up until the end in 1982.

Now this debate is interesting. I think there are elements from '80 and those have been discussed else were and have a lot of merit to them.

I have listened (not that others haven't) but what I have heard is something from about Aug of '81, just listening to shows from around that same time and how Randy played certain songs. There are 2 key songs that lead me to believe this.

One is Crazy Train and the other is Steal Away the Night. And I use the Providence Rhode Island show from Aug 7th or 8th, cant remember which on it is. But Crazy Train has more 16th notes played in the main verse and Randy started to do that it seems some were in July. But the other thing is the fills he uses. They are really similar to the fills at Rhode Island. He seems to have gone through phases of what licks and tricks he used. And you can hear the progression from show to show.

In the first leg of the tour Randy was mainly doing 8th notes and lots of those pinch harmonics where he would bend up 2 and 1/2 steps. Then he stopped. He also was doing that lick that he does on the 3rd verse of the Cleveland show.

Steal Away the Night has a very similar fill to the latest release as the Rhode Island show. It is not the same but similar. I have only heard this similar sounding fill on these 2 shows. Now he could be doing it on other shows I just have not heard them. The fill is at 3:13 on the live cd.

The thing about the 80's shows are that Randy's intro to Crazy Train seemed to be improvised as they are very different from show to show. And he almost always used all 16th notes on the main verse, were applicable. While all the shows after that first European tour seem to be the same constructed fills that we all love and know. The other thing is that Randy did not play very many fills in the main verse in the '80's shows. And his signature lick was only in it's infant stages there as he only plays 4 notes of it he never resolves back down to the A like he does in Tribute.

Anyway there you have it. That is my take on it all.

Now it is possible that other songs are from other shows. I really have no way of knowing as there is not as much or I am not as familiar as I am with the 2 examples I listed above. I mean it is possible that this Live CD has 6 or 7 different shows they used. I don't know if they did. I just think that there is some good evidence for at least 2 songs being from Aug of '81 and at least one being from Montreal in at the end of July '81.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:21 pm 
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I think i may have had a few before my last comments :D

I have alwayss thought the show was sometime late May into late June. Very shortly after Cleveland 81 Randy just turned the jets on full blast it seems, almost like he was holding back prior to that. ..Its really one of the main reasons i don't have any interest in a pro 1980 audio show...Even Tribute/Cleveland 81 just sound boring to me now and it won't get any more interesting going back to 1980 other than Bob/Lee and Ozzy's voice is most likely spectacular.

I imagine the entire Montreal 81 show was remastered at the same time as FHA so that would be unreal to hear all cleaned up. Hopefully it get's released in its entirety one day or leaked out.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Shockwave wrote:
Very shortly after Cleveland 81 Randy just turned the jets on full blast it seems, almost like he was holding back prior to that. ..


I have always thought the same thing. Montreal has always blown me away and I thought he progressed so much so quickly between Cleveland and Montreal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:16 pm 
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Here are my thoughts at least regarding the Montreal theories.

FHA is definitely the only song from Montreal on Ozzy Live as far as guitar tracks go. As mentioned, there are some vocal intros that were taken from Montreal and even at least one shout to the crowd during a song (Believer) from Montreal.

I haven't evaluated the bass and drum tracks but it is evident that Sound Replacer was used on the drums (except for the drum solo) to give it a more modern sound. Just listen to the sound of the drums during the drum solo and compare that to the rest of the concert. That would also help FHA blend in more with the other songs.

I agree that the bass drum is not very present on Montreal. It seems like it doesn't exist in some parts. But I think there was some bass drum added on Ozzy Live. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Tommy usually did the bass drum eighth notes in FHA ("Mama's gonna worry" section) or the double bass drum at the end of Revelation. I would not be surprised if they added that in, especially since they were using Sound Replacer. That would help it to fit in without sticking out.

Between Tribute and Ozzy Live they have really made it impossible to ever release Montreal. Not that I would want them to anyway. I think they really dried up Randy's guitar tone on FHA on Ozzy Live plus they removed his delay/echo.

I wish we got to hear the FHA from the rest of the show and most of all I wish they didn't use so much compression and limiting. The CD has very little dynamic range. It's all loud all the time just like most new CD's and remasters (including the 2011 Blizzard and Diary remasters). Did anyone get the Ozzy Live vinyl? Is it better?


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 Post subject: Re: Ozzy live
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:06 pm 
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SanDimasCharvel wrote:
Here are my thoughts at least regarding the Montreal theories.

FHA is definitely the only song from Montreal on Ozzy Live as far as guitar tracks go. As mentioned, there are some vocal intros that were taken from Montreal and even at least one shout to the crowd during a song (Believer) from Montreal.

I haven't evaluated the bass and drum tracks but it is evident that Sound Replacer was used on the drums (except for the drum solo) to give it a more modern sound. Just listen to the sound of the drums during the drum solo and compare that to the rest of the concert. That would also help FHA blend in more with the other songs.

I agree that the bass drum is not very present on Montreal. It seems like it doesn't exist in some parts. But I think there was some bass drum added on Ozzy Live. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Tommy usually did the bass drum eighth notes in FHA ("Mama's gonna worry" section) or the double bass drum at the end of Revelation. I would not be surprised if they added that in, especially since they were using Sound Replacer. That would help it to fit in without sticking out.

Between Tribute and Ozzy Live they have really made it impossible to ever release Montreal. Not that I would want them to anyway. I think they really dried up Randy's guitar tone on FHA on Ozzy Live plus they removed his delay/echo.

I wish we got to hear the FHA from the rest of the show and most of all I wish they didn't use so much compression and limiting. The CD has very little dynamic range. It's all loud all the time just like most new CD's and remasters (including the 2011 Blizzard and Diary remasters). Did anyone get the Ozzy Live vinyl? Is it better?


The vinyl is fantastic, great pressing quality and if you can find it, nab it. I never listen to the CD anymore, the vinyl presents a wider soundstage, and I feel is a better representation than what the CD offers.


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