BowTie29 wrote:Borrowing and making it your own is a part of music, Crazy Train and Mr Scary riffs are just recycled Paganini. I agree that George never got to Randy's level of writing, arranging, composing etc... I think he was a better guitarist but Randy was a far better musician. I dont think George was consciously trying to play off of what Randy had started, I think that coming from the same place and era, they likely had similar influences and therefore had a similar sound.
My honest opinion and ( only an opinion!)on George Lynch was that when i first heard "Mr Scary" live and his Dokken stuff i loved it was very cool but i heard things in his playing that sounded like Randy somehow, when he formed Lynch Mob later i was expecting something incredible but he hadnt "evolved" he was still playing the same licks and structured his solos the same way. Recently i saw a video on you tube of Lynch, Kotzen and Gilbert kind of doing a guitar duel .....And i thought,....wow George Lynch didnt seem to have any answers to Kotzen and Gilbert that for me showed how big the gap was between these players and i was really really surprised, George Lynch seemed to struggle , i honestly think some players just lose the edge and fade away or lose "something", some become greater and just effortlessly stay on that level....
Randy Rhoads died in 1982 so we can only compare what he did until that point. What was Lynch like in 1982 for example I havent heard any recordings of George Lynch from 1980-82 to compare?. What i will say is i am absolutely sure after hearing what Rhoads did on those two albums and his background in teaching and classical theory he wouldve surely gone onto something even greater.
I fully agree. I think George peaked in Dokken and hasnt done anything all that exiting since. I really like the first Lynch Mob albums, but they arent any special, just good albums. He was similar to Randy in ways, but I think that is partly because of where he came from. There is kinda a 3 way circle between Randy, George and Eddie where they all sound like each other a bit at different times, just like theres times when NWOBHM bands sound like each other or Thrash bands sound like each other, or shredders,etc... I think that Randy would likely have done something greater, but he wasnt able to, so all we can do is speculate unfortunately. For all we know, he could have been like George and never done anything greater (highly unlikely, but possible) If it was George who died during the Dokken days, people may have speculated that he would have done greater things in the future like we do with Randy, but we truly dont know and never will.
Yes that is true. But i honestly think those two albums that Randy Rhoads recorded (Blizzard and Diary) had so much rich musical content within them but yet it was obvious he still hadnt "peaked". I know a lot of emphasis is put on the principle fact Randy died at 25 and there is always going to be speculation but maybe he wouldve recorded a classical album i.e ( John Williams) later on, or a fusion thing , or a Blues Rock project .We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A. When i think of the title track " Diary of a Madman" i imagine songs as powerful as this but i just cant imagine how it wouldve sounded ......
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne
It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
mojopin70 wrote:We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A.
No we don't "know" that. That is pure speculation. We know he would've recorded Speak of the Devil, but there is no reason to believe he would've recorded another studio record.
randy would have done just like all the other legendary guitarists have done-he would have sucked and created crappy music....page,clapton,townsend,evh...blablah...you are in peak form for about 5-7years and then all that genius,creative flow shuts off i.e.stones,zep,who,aerosmith,van halen...who wants to listen to in through the out door or permanent vacation or 5150?
How to tell a real RR signature: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=726&start=120
oth wrote:randy would have done just like all the other legendary guitarists have done-he would have sucked and created crappy music....page,clapton,townsend,evh...blablah...you are in peak form for about 5-7years and then all that genius,creative flow shuts off i.e.stones,zep,who,aerosmith,van halen...who wants to listen to in through the out door or permanent vacation or 5150?
well that all depends on how you view it (let face it the 3rd, 4th and 5th black sabbath album's are as good as the first 2, thats fact not opinion) ..... I personally like seeing how bands/players evolve. To me all van halen have great playing on them so that hasn't lost anything, but yes the songs don't have the same vibe as the first couple of albums. I think the thing randy would have had in is favour is he would have changed his situation (i.e gone solo classical etc) and grown that way, many would probably not liked it but that doesn't mean it sucked
mojopin70 wrote:We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A.
No we don't "know" that. That is pure speculation. We know he would've recorded Speak of the Devil, but there is no reason to believe he would've recorded another studio record.
Not according to what he told Sarzo in his book " Off the Rails" .
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne
It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
mojopin70 wrote:We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A.
No we don't "know" that. That is pure speculation. We know he would've recorded Speak of the Devil, but there is no reason to believe he would've recorded another studio record.
About the only thing we can say is that Speak of the Devil would not have been a bunch of Sabbath songs.
sytharnia wrote:well that all depends on how you view it (let face it the 3rd, 4th and 5th black sabbath album's are as good as the first 2, thats fact not opinion)
You may need to check the definitions of "fact" & "opinion"
dannyahansen wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:
mojopin70 wrote:We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A.
No we don't "know" that. That is pure speculation. We know he would've recorded Speak of the Devil, but there is no reason to believe he would've recorded another studio record.
About the only thing we can say is that Speak of the Devil would not have been a bunch of Sabbath songs.
What I've been told is that a Randy's mom contacted lawyers after Ozzy punched Randy and an agreement was reached that he would record the Sabbath covers and be done with Ozzy, no 3rd record, period.
So, even though the party line (Sarzo) is that there would have been a great 3rd record, that's not necessarily the case. Maybe Randy was working on song ideas and shared them with Sarzo, but after Ozzy telling Randy about the Sabbath record, I'm sure things changed. Ozzy was to be a stepping stone for Randy from day one. At the end Randy wanted to go back to school because Ozzy was an ass and disillusioned him... that we know for certain.
mojopin70 wrote:We know he wouldve recorded a third album with Bob, Ozzy and Tommy A.
No we don't "know" that. That is pure speculation. We know he would've recorded Speak of the Devil, but there is no reason to believe he would've recorded another studio record.
About the only thing we can say is that Speak of the Devil would not have been a bunch of Sabbath songs.
You're mistaken, Ozzy was contractually obligated to do an album of Sabbath songs and that's what 'Speak of the Devil' was always intended to be.
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
What I've been told is that a Randy's mom contacted lawyers after Ozzy punched Randy and an agreement was reached that he would record the Sabbath covers and be done with Ozzy, no 3rd record, period.
So, even though the party line (Sarzo) is that there would have been a great 3rd record, that's not necessarily the case. Maybe Randy was working on song ideas and shared them with Sarzo, but after Ozzy telling Randy about the Sabbath record, I'm sure things changed. Ozzy was to be a stepping stone for Randy from day one. At the end Randy wanted to go back to school because Ozzy was an ass and disillusioned him... that we know for certain.
The plan for a 3rd album with Randy, Bob Daisley and Tommy Aldridge was first discussed in the summer of '81. It continued to be discussed in the months leading up to Randy's death. For me, that's a factual memory.
Speak of the Devil was always going to be recorded first.
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
Sky wrote:The plan for a 3rd album with Randy, Bob Daisley and Tommy Aldridge was first discussed in the summer of '81. It continued to be discussed in the months leading up to Randy's death. For me, that's a factual memory.
Speak of the Devil was always going to be recorded first.
Exactly. The key word here being "discussed". Bob wasn't on the road with the band when the punching incident took place, so he may not have been aware of any legal discussion between the Rhoads' family lawyers and the Osbourne lawyers.
I can picture Bob and Randy getting together down the road at some point and recording again... I would be interesting to know who they'd have chosen for a singer...
For that matter, with the Sunset Strip hair metal scene exploding, where might Randy have fit into that? Would David Lee Roth have given Randy a call after leaving Van Halen?
dannyahansen wrote:I believe George. I mean it doesn't take anything away from Randy. He still made it fit into a song. And for me that solo is the first one I learned and it is still my fav solo of Randy's. I think it is plausible too. George and Randy knew each other, it seems, as I recall George was asked to take over for Randy's teaching while away. And yeah I think he could remember a lick 33 years latter.
The big thing for me here is what does George get out of lying here? Nothing really.
I'm sure that the idea for the album by contract was originally for a live Ozzy album with Randy when he was alive. The idea only changed after Ozzy and the band heard the 'Live Evil' demos. Remember this was recorded on the 1982 Mob rules tour at these gigs 23–24 April, 12–13 May 1982 in Seattle, Dallas and San Antonio. Ozzy said it was a crap Live album and wanted to do a much better Ozzy Sabbath live album. Remember both bands had Don Arden as a manager with Randy gone it was not in the best of interests to put the Live tribute album out at such an early time. This was up on wikipedia ..Osbourne has publicly renounced the album, stating that it was only released to satisfy a contractual obligation to his record label. At the time, a live album featuring guitarist Randy Rhoads was being prepared, but it was scrapped indefinitely upon Rhoads's sudden death in a March 1982 plane crash. Speak of the Devil was hastily recorded and released in its place.
Ozzy bitched publicly at the time that Sabbath waited to put out a live record until he was putting out Speak of the Devil... privately, the decision to record Sabbath covers was made so the contract with Jet could be fulfilled and they wouldn't have to give Jet anything new to make money off of.
Remember, Ozzy and Sharon are politicians at heart. They say one thing publicly and something else behind closed doors...
I was at the first April '82 Sabbath show in Seattle, it was a great show by both Sabbath and the Outlaws. Live Evil, however, is crap.
Sky wrote:The plan for a 3rd album with Randy, Bob Daisley and Tommy Aldridge was first discussed in the summer of '81. It continued to be discussed in the months leading up to Randy's death. For me, that's a factual memory.
Speak of the Devil was always going to be recorded first.
Exactly. The key word here being "discussed". Bob wasn't on the road with the band when the punching incident took place, so he may not have been aware of any legal discussion between the Rhoads' family lawyers and the Osbourne lawyers.
I can picture Bob and Randy getting together down the road at some point and recording again... I would be interesting to know who they'd have chosen for a singer...
For that matter, with the Sunset Strip hair metal scene exploding, where might Randy have fit into that? Would David Lee Roth have given Randy a call after leaving Van Halen?
I don't doubt what Daisley and Sarzo have said ,they were there. As Sky has said the live album was supposed to be Sabbath songs and that was always going to happen first. Bob recorded the third album, so did Osbourne and Aldridge but according to your information places Randy on Sunset strip looking for a band, or sat at home waiting for Dave lee Roth to call .
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne
It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
