Ultimate Rhoads

Thats interesting , i dont see any reason why Lynch would lie but im surprised he can remember this exact tapping sequence he had shown Randy 33 years or so later. It could be true, i remember " Diary of a Madman" and how he " borrowed" from Leo Brouwer "Prelude" Simple Etude #6 and for the main riff he even said himself it was a rip off of " Carmina Burana" and the time signature came from a Holocaust documentary theme tune they were watching in the UK on tv one night ( Always on tv here) in fact ive just realised what theme tune it wouldve been . Flying High Again the main riff is kind of like "Alright Now" Free . IN fact i heard him teaching Alright Now in one of his lessons.

Well with any Randy connected influence it's always going to be hear say or bull shit. It's not like Randy can walk in the room and say yeah he showed me that piece while i was in quiet riot. I know he would of used other ideas etc. He even said his guitar solo was based on EVH's the pull offs and tapping 'Eruption style'. But it is weird how he pulled that answer out of the bag and remembered how to play the same sequence.

I believe George. I mean it doesn't take anything away from Randy. He still made it fit into a song. And for me that solo is the first one I learned and it is still my fav solo of Randy's. I think it is plausible too. George and Randy knew each other, it seems, as I recall George was asked to take over for Randy's teaching while away. And yeah I think he could remember a lick 33 years latter.

The big thing for me here is what does George get out of lying here? Nothing really.

I've heard this a few times before. I believe it because George not only does the part Randy uses, but also the rest of run that Randy didn't use, and I doubt he would have come up with a part to follow only to make it sound more believable to people that he came up with the run. It is rumoured that Eddie got the tapping idea from seeing George do it (Although George wasnt the first to tap, he may have been the first one on the Strip to tap in the way that it was used in the 80s) so Randy too may have borrowed some ideas from George (I was told from his tech that he also came up with the repetitive pentatonic lick used in the first part of the Crowley solo, which Randy also borrowed). Apparently when asked who was the best guitarist on the strip, Randy would have said George as he looked up to George and Georges playing (I too think that George was the best player from the Strip and LA scene through the late 70s and 80s. Randy was a far better musician and composer, arranger,etc... but as a straight out guitar player I think George was the best)

Either way, it doesn't take anything away from Randy, he just borrowed like everyone else does in music

Yeah, and George borrowed the Crazy Train riff for Mr. Scary so it was a matsal borrowing
or sharing if you will

Stiltzkin wrote:Yeah, and George borrowed the Crazy Train riff for Mr. Scary so it was a matsal borrowing
or sharing if you will

Ive always thought that Lynch tried to develop from the legacy that Randy left, its so obvious in his playing with Dokken. The thing is though he never evolved further than that.

BowTie29 wrote:I've heard this a few times before. I believe it because George not only does the part Randy uses, but also the rest of run that Randy didn't use, and I doubt he would have come up with a part to follow only to make it sound more believable to people that he came up with the run. It is rumoured that Eddie got the tapping idea from seeing George do it (Although George wasnt the first to tap, he may have been the first one on the Strip to tap in the way that it was used in the 80s) so Randy too may have borrowed some ideas from George (I was told from his tech that he also came up with the repetitive pentatonic lick used in the first part of the Crowley solo, which Randy also borrowed). Apparently when asked who was the best guitarist on the strip, Randy would have said George as he looked up to George and Georges playing (I too think that George was the best player from the Strip and LA scene through the late 70s and 80s. Randy was a far better musician and composer, arranger,etc... but as a straight out guitar player I think George was the best)

Either way, it doesn't take anything away from Randy, he just borrowed like everyone else does in music

IMHO , Randy Rhoads was way ahead of George Lynch by the time DIary of a Madman had been released in terms of writing, arranging, and playing. I dont hear Lynch up to that standard of writing , playing , arranging until well into Dokken and then Lynch Mob, and even then he was clearly trying to take what Rhoads had left behind and develop it but yet couldnt quite pull it off somehow.....

if you listen to the lead in Tooth and Nail,i think you can hear the similarity in some of the hammer on run as the one in FYA.
GL is my third fave player after you know who.He has great tone,feel.Gl has spoken very little about rr though he probably has a ton of stories.Maybe doesnt want to ride the gravy train as others have done.Respectful,comes to mind.

oth wrote:if you listen to the lead in Tooth and Nail,i think you can hear the similarity in some of the hammer on run as the one in FYA.
GL is my third fave player after you know who.He has great tone,feel.Gl has spoken very little about rr though he probably has a ton of stories.Maybe doesnt want to ride the gravy train as others have done.Respectful,comes to mind.

Or could be his ego ....that is a strong possibility with an american heavy metal guitarist from L.A from the 80s ...something Rhoads was known not to have...( an ego)

Borrowing and making it your own is a part of music, Crazy Train and Mr Scary riffs are just recycled Paganini. I agree that George never got to Randy's level of writing, arranging, composing etc... I think he was a better guitarist but Randy was a far better musician. I dont think George was consciously trying to play off of what Randy had started, I think that coming from the same place and era, they likely had similar influences and therefore had a similar sound.

BowTie29 wrote:Borrowing and making it your own is a part of music, Crazy Train and Mr Scary riffs are just recycled Paganini. I agree that George never got to Randy's level of writing, arranging, composing etc... I think he was a better guitarist but Randy was a far better musician. I dont think George was consciously trying to play off of what Randy had started, I think that coming from the same place and era, they likely had similar influences and therefore had a similar sound.

My honest opinion and ( only an opinion!)on George Lynch was that when i first heard "Mr Scary" live and his Dokken stuff i loved it was very cool but i heard things in his playing that sounded like Randy somehow, when he formed Lynch Mob later i was expecting something incredible but he hadnt "evolved" he was still playing the same licks and structured his solos the same way. Recently i saw a video on you tube of Lynch, Kotzen and Gilbert kind of doing a guitar duel .....And i thought,....wow George Lynch didnt seem to have any answers to Kotzen and Gilbert that for me showed how big the gap was between these players and i was really really surprised, George Lynch seemed to struggle , i honestly think some players just lose the edge and fade away or lose "something", some become greater and just effortlessly stay on that level....


Randy Rhoads died in 1982 so we can only compare what he did until that point. What was Lynch like in 1982 for example I havent heard any recordings of George Lynch from 1980-82 to compare?. What i will say is i am absolutely sure after hearing what Rhoads did on those two albums and his background in teaching and classical theory he wouldve surely gone onto something even greater.

mojopin70 wrote:

BowTie29 wrote:Borrowing and making it your own is a part of music, Crazy Train and Mr Scary riffs are just recycled Paganini. I agree that George never got to Randy's level of writing, arranging, composing etc... I think he was a better guitarist but Randy was a far better musician. I dont think George was consciously trying to play off of what Randy had started, I think that coming from the same place and era, they likely had similar influences and therefore had a similar sound.

My honest opinion and ( only an opinion!)on George Lynch was that when i first heard "Mr Scary" live and his Dokken stuff i loved it was very cool but i heard things in his playing that sounded like Randy somehow, when he formed Lynch Mob later i was expecting something incredible but he hadnt "evolved" he was still playing the same licks and structured his solos the same way. Recently i saw a video on you tube of Lynch, Kotzen and Gilbert kind of doing a guitar duel .....And i thought,....wow George Lynch didnt seem to have any answers to Kotzen and Gilbert that for me showed how big the gap was between these players and i was really really surprised, George Lynch seemed to struggle , i honestly think some players just lose the edge and fade away or lose "something", some become greater and just effortlessly stay on that level....

Randy Rhoads died in 1982 so we can only compare what he did until that point. What was Lynch like in 1982 for example I havent heard any recordings of George Lynch from 1980-82 to compare?. What i will say is i am absolutely sure after hearing what Rhoads did on those two albums and his background in teaching and classical theory he wouldve surely gone onto something even greater.

I fully agree. I think George peaked in Dokken and hasnt done anything all that exiting since. I really like the first Lynch Mob albums, but they arent any special, just good albums. He was similar to Randy in ways, but I think that is partly because of where he came from. There is kinda a 3 way circle between Randy, George and Eddie where they all sound like each other a bit at different times, just like theres times when NWOBHM bands sound like each other or Thrash bands sound like each other, or shredders,etc... I think that Randy would likely have done something greater, but he wasnt able to, so all we can do is speculate unfortunately. For all we know, he could have been like George and never done anything greater (highly unlikely, but possible) If it was George who died during the Dokken days, people may have speculated that he would have done greater things in the future like we do with Randy, but we truly dont know and never will.

mojopin70 wrote:IMHO , Randy Rhoads was way ahead of George Lynch by the time Diary of a Madman had been released in terms of writing, arranging, and playing

Listen to some of Randy's lessons, Randy was way ahead of George when he was in Quiet Riot, that's why he got the gig and George didn't.

I see it like this, George and Randy obviously new each other, Randy had him take over his students when he left for England (and George f'd that up in short order), so I can imagine them discussing guitar playing and Ed's penchant for tapping (which wasn't as extensive as it later became based on the Fresno video from '79). George probably said something like, "Yeah, I've seen Van Halen do that stuff, I came up with this, what do you think?" Years later that piece subconsciously pops up while Randy's blowing out a solo in the studio and when George heard the record he thought, "Hey, that's my thing!"


Randy admired George's playing, but he was every bit as good as George long before he met Ozzy.

The interesting thing is George's style or his approach. He looks at shapes on the fret board and uses his ear to come up with stuff. And he really did do a great job for that approach. Randy definitely took a more educated approach to things and it shows. Keep in mind I am not bashing Lynch. He is great and he made a name for him self. I watch a few video's of him and I tend to approach the guitar more like Lynch.