' The Grail ' contents...

Talk about Randy Rhoads here.

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rokket
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by rokket »

shred1 wrote:
Why does everything have to be 'for profit'? Ozzy has more money than he'll ever need and I'm sure Bob's doing alright. So why constantly profess how much Randy meant to you and how much you loved him and then only ever try to profit off of him?

Naive, maybe, but I get so tired of the greed factor.

This is what I have been saying all along..... here.
And this refers to all things Randy related - from the EBay muggers to the large cast of characters in the Randy Rhoads saga themselves.

After some 30 years, the deeper (as RR fans) we dig and the wider the circle around the central figure becomes, the nastier it seems to get.

I understand the idea of 'making money', but sometimes value can't be measured in dollars.
Something is only worth what someone else is willing to spend at any given time.

As a performer, I believe the artist in Randy wouldn't want everyone to hear his works in progress, nor will a painter show a half-finished piece.
He obviously had high standards with regards to his playing. Would I find them interesting? Sure, but I would rather just listen to it as it was originally presented.

Baby pictures, crash pictures and rumors of sibling rivalry are no substitute for getting to see and hear him play in the best light possible, at the apex of HIS career. That would be footage. And we know it exists.....

All soup, no fish.

My thoughts.
Do you think RR was so egotistical that he wouldn't want anyone to hear demo's or writing sessions? Really?

Money...well...yeah....everyone expects to get paid if they've done some work. Let's say for arguments sake that you and I worked with guitarist Paul Gilbert, the show was recorded and filmed.....a couple of years later he wants to put a track from that show on a cd as a bonus track.....cool....well i don't know about you, but I want to get paid, and rightly so.

Sometimes it is all about money.
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Tito
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Tito »

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!
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shred1
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by shred1 »

Alright. Give me a dollar figure.
What is the Grail worth? You tell me. I am not trying to be smart.
That is my point there.

Funny thing here folks, is it is all about the money!
How many dust ups have we had here where I have stated this and been berated?
Do you think RR was so egotistical that he wouldn't want anyone to hear demo's or writing sessions? Really?
We don't know, and he isn't here to answer that question!

So we can conclude and agree that it is all about the money, and we don't know if Randy would like the idea.
Again, I would GUESS as a man of high craft, he would prefer to be judged by his finished works.
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camdenlp
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by camdenlp »

Sadly, I don't think there is any real money to be made off of 'the grail'. I mean, how much interest is there? Ozzy fans? Maybe a few? Randy fans? Yes, but I think we're very few and far between at this point.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by rhoads56 »

Someone email Bob, and ask him wants for the grail.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by rokket »

shred1 wrote:Alright. Give me a dollar figure.
What is the Grail worth? You tell me. I am not trying to be smart.
That is my point there.

Funny thing here folks, is it is all about the money!
How many dust ups have we had here where I have stated this and been berated?
Do you think RR was so egotistical that he wouldn't want anyone to hear demo's or writing sessions? Really?
We don't know, and he isn't here to answer that question!

So we can conclude and agree that it is all about the money, and we don't know if Randy would like the idea.
Again, I would GUESS as a man of high craft, he would prefer to be judged by his finished works.
Whats it worth? thats assuming Bob would actually want to sell it outright, and lose control of what does or doesn't happen with it. I'd say it would be more like a % of the sales, a fair %, say 25%, and retain ownership rights of the actual tapes etc.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by rokket »

rhoads56 wrote:Someone email Bob, and ask him wants for the grail.
I doubt he'd answer that.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Sky »

GUITARIDOL5682 wrote:Cheers Troy i'm just passing on the info i have, one thing i must point out. Bob has been asked on more then one occasion about any other songs that never made it onto the albums. OK they may not be complete finished tracks but he never mentioned any of the above.
Another thing that came to mind was the mention of the Ozzy 30th anniversary package. I asked Bob on more then one occasion if he know that the 30th anniversary box set was being released and both him and Lee had heard nothing and had no correspondence with the O$bournes. Bob is now saying it was the offering up of the 'Grail' which inspired the O's to release the 30th box set edition ?. Not a big top secret but why did he not just say yeah we are in discussion with the O's ?. Plus $haron said in that video interview that they had out takes and jamming material from during the recordings etc. which would of been the material from the Grail ??.

Hi Shaun,

There weren't any 'songs' that didn't make it onto the album, there were a few ideas, chords and riffs, that were never developed into completed songs and that's what Klein heard, the basics of a song that began life at Monmouth. Two parts of it ended up in others songs - one part in 'Revelation (Mother Earth)', and the other part in 'Steal Away (The Night)'. This is mentioned in Bob's book.
As for the box set, I think it always helps to look at the time-line of events. Drew Thompson initially got in touch with Sony about the idea of a 30th Anniversary special involving Bob's tapes as possible bonus material. He was told to contact Colin Newman, the Osbournes' London accountant who runs their publishing company, Blizzard Music. In Oct 2009, when Bob and Drew were in London, they met with Newman and played him 'snippets' of the grail. Bob and Drew returned to Australia and Newman relayed what he'd heard to Sharon. She told Newman to offer Bob a buy-out deal which Bob rejected. This all happened over a period of months.
In late 2010, the Osbournes announced that they were releasing a 30th Anniversary box set. Neither Bob nor Lee were contacted, consulted or informed about this, Bob found out about it in the press. Newman was contacted, he informed Bob that he would not be receiving performance royalties from the sales.
Later, Bob found out that the release of the 2 albums had been put on hold. As you know, there was a lot of speculation here and on other sites about who or what was preventing them from releasing the box set but it had nothing to do with Bob or Lee. There were no discussions with the Os before or after they decided to release the box set. The fact that people were discussing the hold up generated more publicity and maybe that's what the Os were after.
I haven't seen the video of Sharon talking about the extras with the band jamming and I don't know when it was filmed, maybe it was before Bob rejected her offer because, although Sharon has never had access to any of Bob's tapes, Colin Newman had told her what Bob had and it's possible that's was she was talking about.
To this day, neither of the Osbournes have heard any of the grail.
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Sky »

hansolo wrote:I suppose Bob could release on you tube or sell it to a bootlegger, which is not too popular these days. Or something would have to happen to Sharon...

These details that seemed to just come out, one from Idol came from Klein but I didn't think that Bob gave them anything. He may have played some stuff for them or put it in a list and what is the deal with the "corrected" facts? Have you heard these tapes? What is your source?
Yes, Bob did play Klein and Margolis a few pieces of the grail, Bob didn't give them any of it. As for the corrected stuff that I posted yesterday, I ran that past Bob Daisley so we're both the source. And yes I've heard Bob's tapes.
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Sky »

Paul Wolfe wrote:
The Flying Dutchman wrote: If I was Bob I would do it like this: at times I would upload some of that stuff in mp3 format on his website adding some little background info or stories to be enjoyed by the Randy fans. That way he makes his website more interesting, keeps control, and at the same time setting some 'things' from the past straight. It could be done on a sub-page on his website, something like 'the story behind writing the Blizzard songs' and once in a while add some things (mp3's, pics, little stories) the fans can look out for. :)
Still no profit but at least more joy for everyone I guess. (including Bob himself)
I love this idea.

Why does everything have to be 'for profit'? Ozzy has more money than he'll ever need and I'm sure Bob's doing alright. So why constantly profess how much Randy meant to you and how much you loved him and then only ever try to profit off of him?

Naive, maybe, but I get so tired of the greed factor.

And how would you know that Bob is doing alright? More assumptions based on made up scenarios that exist in the heads of the uninformed.
Strange how people who want something for nothing are so quick to accuse others of greed.
If you'd read Bob's book you'd know exactly what he wanted in return for the grail - To retain control over how the tapes were edited, no lump sum but he asked a 2% royalty i.e. TWO percent from the profit of sales of the box set and the Osbournes would retain 98% of the profits. Greed?
And how is he profiting off of Randy's name when Bob co-wrote the music, wrote the lyrics, co-produced and PERFORMED on BOO & Diary?
4 performers are on Bob's tapes, I know that there are legal and copyright issues and you'd like me to put them on Bob's site so that you can hear them for free? ...And fuck the consequences for me, Simon, Bob and his site, I suppose? Dream on!
Even if there were no legal issues, who's gonna pay for my time to do all of this extra work to give you something for nothing? Do you judgemental beings live on air?.. Or sniff glue?
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away." - Elvis Presley
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Isodee
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Isodee »

Sky wrote:If you'd read Bob's book you'd know exactly what he wanted in return for the grail - To retain control over how the tapes were edited, no lump sum but he asked a 2% royalty i.e. TWO percent from the profit of sales of the box set and the Osbournes would retain 98% of the profits. Greed?
The same 2% performance royalty Bob & Lee never received on BOO & DOAM and went to court twice, right? And on second time the case was dismissed because it had gone cold so to speak.

I'm not defending the Osbournes but don't you think they feared the possibility of getting sued again in case they admitted to pay Bob & Lee their royalties this time? Wouldn't that give Bob & Lee grounds for a new trial? That's why I understand them offering a lump sum altho I have no idea how much they offered to pay. Probably peanuts. :roll:
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by Sky »

Isodee wrote:
Sky wrote:If you'd read Bob's book you'd know exactly what he wanted in return for the grail - To retain control over how the tapes were edited, no lump sum but he asked a 2% royalty i.e. TWO percent from the profit of sales of the box set and the Osbournes would retain 98% of the profits. Greed?
The same 2% performance royalty Bob & Lee never received on BOO & DOAM and went to court twice, right? And on second time the case was dismissed because it had gone cold so to speak.

I'm not defending the Osbournes but don't you think they feared the possibility of getting sued again in case they admitted to pay Bob & Lee their royalties this time? Wouldn't that give Bob & Lee grounds for a new trial? That's why I understand them offering a lump sum altho I have no idea how much they offered to pay. Probably peanuts. :roll:
Yes, Bob asked for two percent for that reason, and he made it clear that he wouldn't ask for any back royalties, he said that it would only apply to ongoing sales of the box set. If he'd accepted a lump sum buy-out they would have got control of the tapes. Most people have seen the coffee table book, where's the photos of Bob and Lee? Can you imagine what Sharon would do to those tapes? And yeah, she did offer peanuts.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by The Flying Dutchman »

Paul Wolfe wrote:
The Flying Dutchman wrote: If I was Bob I would do it like this: at times I would upload some of that stuff in mp3 format on his website adding some little background info or stories to be enjoyed by the Randy fans. That way he makes his website more interesting, keeps control, and at the same time setting some 'things' from the past straight. It could be done on a sub-page on his website, something like 'the story behind writing the Blizzard songs' and once in a while add some things (mp3's, pics, little stories) the fans can look out for. :)
Still no profit but at least more joy for everyone I guess. (including Bob himself)
I love this idea.

Why does everything have to be 'for profit'? Ozzy has more money than he'll ever need and I'm sure Bob's doing alright. So why constantly profess how much Randy meant to you and how much you loved him and then only ever try to profit off of him?

Naive, maybe, but I get so tired of the greed factor.
Exactly. Though I understand he won't give it just away as well. But I do think that this 'grail' stuff will never really sell to profit. What's the point to leave it on the shelves then if you still can make a group of hardcore fans happy with it? Otherwise probably nobody will hear it/enjoy it and still no profit either. To me it's pointless to leave it on the shelve without further purpose IF he wants to share it. It feels like a waste then. What Bob can do is to share snippits of it by his website IF he wants that 'grail' stuff to be heard by fans. It's an easy and cheap way to share it. I don't think he should give it all away by uploading it to youtube. That doesn't feel right to me either.

Above I would say to Bob IF he wants to share it, I don't say he should share it. There can be good reasons not to publice it. I respect his decision whatever it will be.
The winner of the rat race is still a rat.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by mojopin70 »

I never knew about these Grail Sessions until i joined this site....I understand everything now ive read Bob`s book though, its basically like this if he hands the Grail Tapes to the Osbournes they buy them for a minimal fee and edit the tapes to look like Ozzy and Randy did everything like they have been doing since 1982.Its already a permanent insult that Sarzo and T >a are on Diary even though they didnt play a single note.

Although im not a great fan of Sarzo musically , apparently when Don Arden demanded Max Norman re-record over Bob and Lee , Norman , Aldridge and Sarzo said no even after Max Norman was threatened....Hats OFF
"If I knew then what I know now, I'd have made five albums with them" Ozzy Osbourne

It's regret, i think that really is the worst kind of pain, yeah guilt is bad, and sadness is bad, but regret is the sickly combination of both.
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Re: ' The Grail ' contents...

Post by hansolo »

I THINK I ASKED BEFORE BUT HOW did the boxset do? And all the other singles, picture discs, etc. Answer that and you'll know if it's worth it. Of course they want to make money off of it. They don't want to lose money on it. I get that. Then you have the O's. Oh no.

Overstatement - I would love to hear those tapes. I shouldn't ask but how did you guys hear them? One guy corrects another guy with, "No Randy plays a fill in Am and then they play the Munster's theme, etc." All I can think is, "It's out there and people have heard it!"

Bands/albums are like movies/characters. We like to revisit our favorites and a chance of a sequel or outtakes is like seeing old friends, it's more of your favorite stuff.
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