Randy thought Jimmy Page had sloppy playing? Listen.........

[oth]

The reason people liked it was it fresher sounding and more honest. Rock had increased it's technical side but ignored it's feeling side so to speak. It was technical without as much feeling...

That's exactly why punk came about with the Ramones in the '70's. Between the polish of disco and the indulgent 30 minute renditions of songs by Zeppelin, et al, there was a group of kids who wanted to get back to the roots of expressing their emotions. In short order punk became new wave and polished... 'Grunge' was punk a generation later and in short order it faded as well... a couple more years and it'll happen again. Page and Zeppelin took rock to a pinnacle and then the Ramones brought rock back down to earth...

What I always found fascinating is how Led Zeppelin could be so great as a unit, but when they disbanded they couldn't reproduce that greatness individually.

if you cant play an instrument nor have much melodic sense you can always choose punk.Punk to me is people deciding they dont want to learn their stuff and spewing out the garbage.Iggy pop,ramones???This is the most over-rated crap ever.Personally a lot of or most hair metal isnt much better too but many of these guys could at least play.Not that that means much in a song if it sounds like a clinic.Punk is so negative in a loserville kind of way that it just annoys me.And im a cynical person by nature but punk is not constructive social criticism just juvenile knee-jerk ranting.Anyway i always go off when someone talks about punk and its importance because its such a load of emperor wears no clothes-theres nothing there,there.

[hansolo]

Right, in the mid seventies rock started to get old and overindulgence. I've heard Zeppelin boots where the guy recording is yelling, "We have had the guitar lesson" during Pagey's solo in 1977. Zeppelin was a band that improvised live. Pagey was always looking to increase his vocabulary by improvising and not by playing the same solo twice. He had more of a Zen Buddhist approach, create a new thing every day, destroy it and build a new one out of thin air tomorrow. There are a few different thing happening when you hear a 'new' solo. You ear isn't hearing what you thought you'd be hearing. Pagey's guitar isn't very overdriven but very clean and the other thing; broken, drunken or drugged hands.

Punk was a result of the overindulgence of the 20 minute guitar solo and the 30 minute drum solo. Have you heard much punk? Have heard Never mind the Bollocks? It is the Sex Pistols before Sid Vicious. It's a very tight album. There are even guitar solos on there! The Punk era was very similar to the Grunge era because it was very much do-it-yourselves. Bands didn't wait around for some record label to record them or practice sweep picking arpeggios. There is nothing wrong with practicing sweep picking arpeggios but it's better to be more rounded. Most people just want a melody and a chord progression. Punk used the primal scream. Shouting out emotionally. I gotta say too that a lot of punk music was more honest in their lyrics than Zeppelin. Don't get me wrong but Zeppelin were not that socially political, very poetic but not 'God save the queen' or we want change. That is something I respect about these bands but that is why Green day is NOT a punk band. They use elements of punk but it comes of as fake. As Fake as Billy Joe's fake english accent when he is singing. They hired a lead guitar player and would play a song and do an interview without the lead guitarist. I thought that was weird. Anyway, not all punk is great and not all rock is great. I think most of us are here because Randy had that right amount of technical skills mixed with theory and emotion that blew the top of our heads off and he continues to do so.

[oth]

i dont mind sexpistols but iggy pop and the ramones are completely boring,barely musical,unlistenable hacks.I dont think punk is the result of the 24 min guitar solo-that is some baseless statement the punk pr press made up that worked well.The real result of punk was lazy ass kids who didnt want to bust their asses to learn to play like zep or floyd.Just like lazy ass slobs who eat at mcdonalds and get obese because they dont want to learn how to cook a real meal.Hows that for an opinion?!!!

And back to RRs Page comment,i think he disliked zep like sabbath first and foremost.

[hansolo]

Is it a coincidence that most punk and grunge music didn't have guitar solos? Kurt Cobain played a lot of vocal melody solos. I don't care if you don't believe it, the guitar solo was part of the reason to rebel whether it was 20 minutes or 20 seconds. It was rebelling against the status quo and cliches. While I don't agree with a lot of it like rap music, I don't hate it. I know guys who HATE rap and they spend more time hating it than they have listened to it. The point is, don't spend time on things you don't like. Why dwell on it? How does not likening something turn in to hate? I think there is something deep routed there.

I doubt Randy would have said anything negative about Zeppelin. The most negative thing I heard Randy say was on a Japan questionnaire for 'least favorite band' he put - Ramones. When asked about bands, he usually replied, "I think they're great." I never heard Randy say anything slamming or scorching about any bands or players. He didn't seem to hate anybody playing music.

[oth]

ask him off the record and he would have had a lot to say....Do you ever hear the rolling stones or any other bands bash others?It s just professional etiquette.I never heard axl slam hair bands but you know he hated that crap.Just sayin'.

there is nothing to aspire to or be inspired by punk guitar...when i was a kid i wanted to play stairway and learned it with a lot of practice.There is little if anything to learn from the guitar in the ramones or sp.

[hansolo]

So sure of yourself, in what can be gained? Keep an open heart on this journey and you will hear love or hate depending on your point of view. If you seek hate you will find it.

[Paul Wolfe]

there is nothing to aspire to or be inspired by punk guitar...when i was a kid i wanted to play stairway and learned it with a lot of practice.There is little if anything to learn from the guitar in the ramones or sp.

"Grunge" started in the mid-80's in Seattle and was a combination of punk and thrash metal like Anthrax. Mostly it was started by people who wanted to play their instruments but weren't very good. I'd say 85% were influenced by the Ramones and KISS in equal parts. Basically these bands were a step above playing air guitar in your room - they actually had instruments and played them in front of people.

I was living on Queen Anne hill in Seattle while the grunge movement was exploding. Sure, it wasn't a bunch of technical virtuosos playing, but that wasn't the point. The point was to go out and have fun.

You mentioned Axl not bashing hair-metal, Guns-n-Roses would NEVER have had the impact they did without Duff McKagen's punk influence to compliment Slash & Izzy's playing. Watch GnR at the Ritz, they are no different than the grunge bands in Seattle except that Slash was a better guitarist. Then again, Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains could hold his own with Slash...

It's all a point of view thing... I love a LOT of grunge, but I watched these guys in clubs while I was getting drunk - so do I love the music or the memories it brings back?

I completely get your point of view oth, we just see it differently...

As for Zeppelin, I'd love to see a live video where they played well, I just haven't yet.

[oth]

As for Zeppelin, I'd love to see a live video where they played well, I just haven't yet.

Havent you seen 'The Song Remains the Same' ???

[hansolo]

As for Zeppelin, I'd love to see a live video where they played well, I just haven't yet.

Havent you seen 'The Song Remains the Same' ???

Agreed! TSRTS is a great live statement and was the only thing out there for years! This DVD set is a great live anthology (1969-1979). It's worth it just for the entire Royal Albert Hall 1970!

http://avaxho.me/video/quality/dvd/HOFTG.html

[Paul Wolfe]

Song Remains the Same wasn't that good in my opinion... I haven't seen that newer DVD, I'll have to check it out.

[hansolo]

You might find The LZ 2 DVD at your local library or maybe a friend will let you borrow it, if you don't have $10.95 (new on Amazon) + Shipping. The Song remains the same outtakes like The Ocean or the uninterrupted Misty Mountain hop into since I've been loving you (different video) are very good.

There are a few things that take away from TSRTS that make it less than perfect. There is footage used that isn't synched up or it could be from another night but it doesn't line up. 3 nights were filmed at Madison Square Gardens in 1973 but there seemed to be a lot of footage that didn't turn out or cut. The audio of songs were sometimes cut from one night to another, as well as the video. I didn't want to mention this it always comes as a shock to some but there were bullshit re-creations in 1974 so they could have video for certain songs like Stairway. There are ways to tell between the mirrors, lack of audience or even the fake sweat on Plant. The audio is live and there are no overdubs. Even after all that I still enjoy TSRTS and I remember in school not giving one crap about Led Zeppelin but I'm glad I eventually did.

[hansolo]

I also forgot to mention Plant's lemon that is barely concealed in his skin tight trousers in TSRTS. It looks painful! The cameramen at crotch level does not help it. I recommend the 2 DVD again.

[Paul Wolfe]

You might find The LZ 2 DVD at your local library...

Funny you mention that, I looked it up at the library and placed a hold on it!

[RRforeveRR]

I also forgot to mention Plant's lemon that is barely concealed in his skin tight trousers in TSRTS. It looks painful! The cameramen at crotch level does not help it. I recommend the 2 DVD again.

Dude, why the lemon all the freakin time with Plant? Now, don't get me wrong- I love me some LZ- but I've had enough with the lemon, really- I could never figure out if Mr Plant was serenading his cock, or using it as bait to lure in the groupies. Yes, I was fishing for a good pun and it still sucks. lol

[GUITARIDOL5682]

The lemon ? am i missing something here are you saying he had a lemon down his jeans to increase the buldge factor. Or are you on about the design on his jeans near his crotch.