a Crowley observation

[Paul Wolfe]

So the other day I was playing Mr. Crowley and something I’d played many times took on new life. Look at these measures and what do you see?

So often I'd played this, just playing what was written. This time, however, the first measure suddenly became a C chord and an F chord (the F being a CAGED C form chord minus the 8th fret A string ‘F’ note). Then, in the 3rd measure, I ‘saw’ C, Dm, Em, Dm – and ‘heard’ (in my head) Randy talking in a lesson about playing ‘broken’ chords. When I heard him say that in an taped lesson years ago I glossed over it. The other day it clicked, he was talking about what I know as partial chords when he said broken chords.

It’s this kind of thing that pops out from time to time that fascinates me about Randy’s playing. I hear it in a whole new light now.

By the way, the C to F in the first measure there is a very common ‘70’s rock cliché. I hadn’t noticed it in Crowley before but I’ve been playing a lot of ‘70’s stuff lately, so it jumped out at me this time.

[stealaway]

Paul, that´s actually really interesting detail
I´ve always thought about the seminar-tape as some kinda reference point, to Randy´s theory. At least it gives a listener some insights to Randy´s music theory and views on writing and playing. By the way; I´ve listened to a lot of jazz-music lately and that gives a new view on all music too! I can see why Randy liked some of the jazz-stuff!

[Paul Wolfe]

I remember reading that he was getting into Larry Carlton right there at the end. These days it's normal for players to quote all kinds of influences, but back in those days you only quoted guys in your genre.

The thing with the first measure cliché is that I first noticed it in quite a few KISS songs - in fact a LOT of KISS songs have that in them, I'll have to look, but I'm thinking they are the Paul Stanley authored ones. Anyway, I then started noticing it elsewhere and, later, I came across this video:



This guy found the same thing in Keith Richard's playing. When I started looking, I found it explained in Desi Serna's CAGED DVD and again in a recent Steve Stine CAGED lesson - check this out at 5:47...



Another thing that was an 'epiphany' is the lick during the 2nd chorus (at the same point). I always had difficulty remembering the fingering for that and would slow down there. Then I 'saw' it as descending in D minor and it clicked. I was actually playing a 3-note per string F major scale prior to playing Crowley, so when I go to that lick it sounded familiar... D minor is the relative minor to F major, so I could see the context.

Ever hear the saying, "He can't see the forest for the trees"? That's where I was. I was focusing on the fingering and when I stepped back and saw the context it all made sense.

Randy's legacy in action: he's still teaching us new ways of see things in his playing.

[mojopin70]

Randy actually nicked the c/f partial/broken chord thing from Paul Kossoff , he used the same shapes in Crazy Train....

[Paul Wolfe]

Randy actually nicked the c/f partial/broken chord thing from Paul Kossoff , he used the same shapes in Crazy Train....

Could you point out the Kossoff piece(s) you are referring to? You've got me curious.

This is what I mean when I say I believe Randy's teaching molded his style more than anything else. I'm sure a student asked to learn something, he heard this in whatever song it was and it became a piece of his style.

[stealaway]

Wow! I´m glad that Randy might have liked Kossoff; Koss is my faves too! I found it bit amusing that Michael Schenker was into Kossoff too! No wonder I´m into Schenker so much I´m gonna have to print myself Kossoff, Rhoads and Schenker t-shirts for sure!

[stealaway]

Randy actually nicked the c/f partial/broken chord thing from Paul Kossoff , he used the same shapes in Crazy Train....

Do you mean stuff like "Heartbreaker" by Free?
Or was there some stuff like that, I might be wrong. Have to check out that now...
By the way, if you have a change to get David Clayton/Todd K Smith book "Heavy Load", story of Free- get it! More than a decade after I read that book, I got myself a copy! Very good book!!!

[Paul Wolfe]

It could have been any number of guitarists that Randy got it from... the Doobie Brothers used it a lot and KISS used it extensively... it doesn't have to be C to F, it might have been anything and just fit that way for the song he was writing.

I figure Randy probably knew a number of KISS songs, since he was teaching students their song requests and KISS was huge at the time. I'd love to hear his take on some of those tunes. I've got a lesson tape of his somewhere that has him playing some Aerosmith and ELO in it...

[mojopin70]

Hi Paul, i heard Randy teaching Kossofs " alright now" somewhere, and " Mr Big" i think it was....didnt he used broken chords in Alright Now?

I know he was a fan of Mick Ronson too ( he even looked a bit like Ronson style wise ) .....

[barossadude]

Randy putting his take on Areosmith & ELO - that would be something I'd LOVE to hear!!

[fortress]

YOu guys make me sick with you knoweldge of music theory. I mean, i'm jealous!! I read this thread and i'm like "wtf they are talking about?)

I play randy stuff since alot of years in a tribute band but i dont know What i'm playing. Is it Cem7 chord?? diminished lick?? advanced lick, egyptian chord?? Brasilian melody? and what's not??

I just play with my ear but i would like to learn about music theory some day. (well, i have some basic but that's it)

Oh, i play MR crowley like the tribute version

[hansolo]

Learn intervals (1st, m2, M2, m3, M3, P4, flatted 5, P5, m6, M^, m7, M7) and how they relate. Like a minor chord has the 1st, minor 3rd and perfect fifth and a major chord is the 1st, major 3rd and perfect fifth. Here the third decides the flavor. That's how the tapping thing happened. For example in Crazy Train the solo starts off with Randy tapping or spelling out the name of the chord that is played under it. F#m (F#, A, C#) to D (D, F#, A) and Randy is tapping on the C# then mover his tapping finger up one fret to the D note. The F# and A are shared notes. Then you start learning 7th chords which is the last piece of the harmony puzzle. I used to think you only harmonized with the 1st, 3rd and 5th but the seventh is the 4th part. This is basic theory because you can harmonize with other intervals too like 2nds and 4ths but I'm just presenting basics. The other tricky thing I have run into is chord voicings, If you apply the above or learn how to make chords, which notes are in the chord, sometimes you still aren't playing the right version of that chord. For instance you could have an F#m and you can play inversions. It could be played, from low to high (F#, A, C#) or (A, C#, F#) or (C#, F# A). Any combinations really as long as they contain the notes. Sometimes people will use a chord up in the upper frets and throw in some open strings. Other chords work but they don't sound quite right. You have to find the right voicing. I hope this helps a little.

[Paul Wolfe]

Learn intervals (1st, m2, M2, m3, M3, P4, flatted 5, P5, m6, M^, m7, M7) and how they relate.

Excellent advice. Learning your intervals and where all the notes on the neck are will open up whole new worlds. You'll be able construct scales, chords and arpeggios on the fly.

[dannyahansen]

Learn intervals (1st, m2, M2, m3, M3, P4, flatted 5, P5, m6, M^, m7, M7) and how they relate. Like a minor chord has the 1st, minor 3rd and perfect fifth and a major chord is the 1st, major 3rd and perfect fifth. Here the third decides the flavor. That's how the tapping thing happened. For example in Crazy Train the solo starts off with Randy tapping or spelling out the name of the chord that is played under it. F#m (F#, A, C#) to D (D, F#, A) and Randy is tapping on the C# then mover his tapping finger up one fret to the D note. The F# and A are shared notes. Then you start learning 7th chords which is the last piece of the harmony puzzle. I used to think you only harmonized with the 1st, 3rd and 5th but the seventh is the 4th part. This is basic theory because you can harmonize with other intervals too like 2nds and 4ths but I'm just presenting basics. The other tricky thing I have run into is chord voicings, If you apply the above or learn how to make chords, which notes are in the chord, sometimes you still aren't playing the right version of that chord. For instance you could have an F#m and you can play inversions. It could be played, from low to high (F#, A, C#) or (A, C#, F#) or (C#, F# A). Any combinations really as long as they contain the notes. Sometimes people will use a chord up in the upper frets and throw in some open strings. Other chords work but they don't sound quite right. You have to find the right voicing. I hope this helps a little.

THis is great. One thing that helped me a lot see this stuff was looking to Jason Becker and his arpeggios. Most of what he does is just looking at 1st 3rd and 5th's. And then flating them to make them minor or dim and so on. I don't use 7ths too often. But I like looking at the arpeggios because it helps me figure out harmonies. Figuring out tapping did not happen until I learn the arpeggios and I really developed my sweep picking. Which I was not even a fan of until I discoverd Jason Becker back in 2009. How lame is that too? IT took me so many years to even hear of this guy.

[stealaway]

Many guitar players tend to skip the theory-part, ´cos it takes time and patience, but in the end it helps quite a lot...huge a lot, really! I´ve somewhat gone back to learning more theory (in a way, also re-learning!) and adjusting to what can widen my approach to guitar playing. I really cannot play jazz-music, but it doesn´t prevent me from trying! Every time I listen Randy´s playing, there´s some new little nuance to be found- and I think that´s just great! By the way, it´s just too bad that Jason Becker can´t play anymore- he played some really good stuff! For example Cacophony-stuff with Marty Friedman were cool!!!