Randy VS. Speak Of The Devil

[Phineas J]

It has been stated before that Randy was not in favor of doing the record of Sabbath covers for what would become SOTD.

Although I thought Brad did a great job on those Sabbath covers, I have always wondered what Randy would have sounded like playing some of them. Randy's flavor on Children of the Grave and Iron Man I thought gave the songs a new and refreshing twist. I would like to hear Randy's tone on those songs.

Has anyone ever heard of the band rehearsing any other Sabbath material while Randy was still in the band? Don? Rudy maybe? Or do you know if the Sabbath set that was picked for SOTD was chosen much later after Randy passed away?

PJ

[cableguyxx]

It has been stated before that Randy was not in favor of doing the record of Sabbath covers for what would become SOTD.

Although I thought Brad did a great job on those Sabbath covers, I have always wondered what Randy would have sounded like playing some of them. Randy's flavor on Children of the Grave and Iron Man I thought gave the songs a new and refreshing twist. I would like to hear Randy's tone on those songs.

Has anyone ever heard of the band rehearsing any other Sabbath material while Randy was still in the band? Don? Rudy maybe? Or do you know if the Sabbath set that was picked for SOTD was chosen much later after Randy passed away?

PJ

I'm pretty sure it was only in the talking stages at the point Randy passed. It has been speculated that Randy would have absolutely owned Symptom of the Universe though

[whoopiecat]

I think we've heard all there is in terms of Randy covering Sabbath tunes. We know his feelings about Sabbath in general, and we know what happened when he made those feelings known to Ozzy.
It was a mystery why they still kept three Sabbath numbers in the set after DOAM was released.
Why would you tour in support of an album and only play three numbers from it and still play as many numbers from the band you were fired from?
It all seems like a waste now as that album has been dismissed by Ozzy and banished to the void.

[fortress]

its one of my all time favorite live album! no kidding

[GuitarJoe]

Brad did a fantastic job on SOTD, it really is a kick ass album. Ozzy sounded great too (though I'm sure he had some studio touch-up help). As far as why did Ozzy keep 3 Sabbath songs in his set, the answer I think is two fold:

1- Kids wanted to hear it. Face it, if you went & bought a ticket to see David Lee Roth, wouldn't you wanna hear him belt out a few old VH tunes?

2- I think at this time Ozzy & the three remaining Sabbath members were fighting for the legacy of Sabbath. In other words, each party wanted to appear to the public as being the reason the reason Black Sabbath was successful. Sabbath released two AWESOME albums with Dio (Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules) and of course Ozzy released Blizzard & Diary. Sabbath had also just released a live album with Dio singing a bunch of old Ozzy-era Sabbath songs, and I think Ozzy wanted to "get back" at Sabbath and show the world he was the real deal.

Anyway, I think we can all agree if Randy tackled songs like Snowblind, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Symptom of the Universe, it would have kicked major ass. Can you imagine the screaming fills he would have thrown into War Pigs for example?!?!?

[The Flying Dutchman]

It has been speculated that Randy would have absolutely owned Symptom of the Universe though

Absolutely!

[jasonmusicman]

Brad did a fantastic job on SOTD, it really is a kick ass album. Ozzy sounded great too (though I'm sure he had some studio touch-up help). As far as why did Ozzy keep 3 Sabbath songs in his set, the answer I think is two fold:

1- Kids wanted to hear it. Face it, if you went & bought a ticket to see David Lee Roth, wouldn't you wanna hear him belt out a few old VH tunes?

2- I think at this time Ozzy & the three remaining Sabbath members were fighting for the legacy of Sabbath. In other words, each party wanted to appear to the public as being the reason the reason Black Sabbath was successful. Sabbath released two AWESOME albums with Dio (Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules) and of course Ozzy released Blizzard & Diary. Sabbath had also just released a live album with Dio singing a bunch of old Ozzy-era Sabbath songs, and I think Ozzy wanted to "get back" at Sabbath and show the world he was the real deal.

Anyway, I think we can all agree if Randy tackled songs like Snowblind, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Symptom of the Universe, it would have kicked major ass. Can you imagine the screaming fills he would have thrown into War Pigs for example?!?!?

Heres a link to a sound board recording of brad on the speak of the devil tour, i was listening to it earlier and im sure you have already heard it but brad in all fairness did a really good job under the circumstances of covering randys stuff as well.


heres the link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DEHA6NVA

jas.

[Vtrockgod]

Hi, I've been a RR fan for over 25 years and decided to take the plunge and join the board. There's a number of reasons why Ozzy was still doing those three Sabbath tunes. The first is that much of Ozzy's legacy, now as well as then, was being the ex-lead singer of Sabbath. There were a lot of people who wanted to hear those songs. It was known in the Osbourne camp that Sabbath was planning on releasing a live album: there was certainly bad blood between the Sabs and Ozzy, and any opportunity to "one up" each other was going to be utilized. Also, if I remember correctly, Rudy Sarzo wrote in his book that due to Ozzy's mental health and other issues, they could only add one more song from the DOAM record ("Over The Mountain"). Which is a shame, because "You Can't Kill Rock and Roll", "Tonight", the title track, etc. etc. would have sounded great live (I've always thought "SATO" would have been a killer opener).

Even though Randy didn't care for the Sabbath material, I always thought he was a great fit for those songs. Combining his classical influence with Sabbath's dirge is like peanut butter and chocolate, and I love his take on "Children of the Grave" off "Tribute." I also agree that "Symptom" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" would have sounded epic, but I also think "Never Say Die" and "Snowblind" would have been highlights as well. Honestly, the whole cd woud have rocked. Brad Gillis did a fantastic job considering the circumstances, but I think Randy's style lent itself better to Sabbath's material.

[Cpt Matt Sparrow]

The biggest mystery (and contradiction) is that the stuff Randy grew away from musically (and emotionally), was the mainly major key and upbeat work of Quiet Riot. The stuff he collaborated with Ozzy, Bob and Lee was mainly more complex musically and also much darker...also much of it was either in a minor key or at least had progressions that used a minor change. So it has always seemed strange to me that he was on record saying he disliked Black Sabbath so much.

Believer, Diary Of A Madman, SATO for example all had the Sabbath blue print - minor third intervals in the melodic lines and a heavy guitar riff that underpinned the song's dark atmosphere. Maybe his dislike was more of an aesthetic one and not a musical one?

Matt

[Vtrockgod]

Good points. I also think that while Rhoads and Iommi shared a love for a great riff and minor keys (note how RR unconsciously utilized the riff to "Black Sabbath" in the beginning of the "Over the Moutain" solo), they were very different as guitar players (and I love both of them for different reasons). Iommi's best work is like a tractor trailer plowing a mud bog: straight ahead, lumbering and it's going to knock you flat. RR's is like a trans am zipping in and out of traffic on the interstate with his speed and the little fills he would sprinkle around the main riff. Maybe Randy didn't feel challenged by Sabbath's material or that it took a lot of skill to play those songs (on the other hand, it takes a lot of talent to write monster riff after riff that way Iommi did).

[CanuckRhoadsFan]

This thread reminds me of a thread over at .tk that I commented on ages ago. I have always felt that Randy brought an "upbeat" feel to the Sabbath material; his playing was just too good to emulate Iommi, and more than likely, while he didn't care for playing the material, being the consummate professional that he was, he would have played it well and put his own spin on it.

Let's face it, folks, Randy was savvy enough to understand why he had to play these songs,and while not liking to do it, would have done it for the show. Hard not to respect a musician for doing what he's got to do.

It's also a possibility that Randy didn't agree with the Sabbath stuff and what people perceived it stood for based on his upbringing - was he not raised in a quasi- religious household? Granted, Randy was no saint, of course, but he was hhis own person, and would have had his own views on the material, and it may nmot have sat well with him. He fully understood what he was playing and why.

Like someone else mentioned, people went to the show EXPECTING that Ozzy would play Sabbath tunes. Wouldn't anyone, given the history? Musicians who deny their musical past usually aren't looked upon favorably by audiences. Not to mention that familiar tunes would have helped Ozz get his foot in the door, so to speak, to promote his new material.

And yeah, add me to the crowd of people who would have loved to have heard Randys take on SOTD.

[shawn]

The biggest mystery (and contradiction) is that the stuff Randy grew away from musically (and emotionally), was the mainly major key and upbeat work of Quiet Riot. The stuff he collaborated with Ozzy, Bob and Lee was mainly more complex musically and also much darker...also much of it was either in a minor key or at least had progressions that used a minor change. So it has always seemed strange to me that he was on record saying he disliked Black Sabbath so much.

Believer, Diary Of A Madman, SATO for example all had the Sabbath blue print - minor third intervals in the melodic lines and a heavy guitar riff that underpinned the song's dark atmosphere. Maybe his dislike was more of an aesthetic one and not a musical one?

Matt

Matt I think you may be right when suggesting that it was an aesthetic view that could be the reason Randy may not have liked the Sabbath material. They may have been using the same notes/chords/changes in some cases but the phrasing was quite different. The techniques that they used, as in pick attack, and sounds, are quite diverse as well, which give a very different feel to their music. Even though the musical leanings of Sabbath and Randy/Ozzy are dark in nature the material in feel to the listener is quite different I personally believe.

[Lespauly]

Randy may not have wanted to do the Sabbath songs simply because he probally did not like the lyrical content and they where probally boring to play to him. Also He was not going to get paid any royalties after that record came out since he did not write any of the songs. We all know he would have sounded awesome playing them but his heart was not in to it and he stood up to Ozzy/Arden mgt-you all know the rest of the story..If it where me in his shoes I would have done the same thing..

[sytharnia]

Brad did a fantastic job on SOTD, it really is a kick ass album. Ozzy sounded great too (though I'm sure he had some studio touch-up help). As far as why did Ozzy keep 3 Sabbath songs in his set, the answer I think is two fold:

1- Kids wanted to hear it. Face it, if you went & bought a ticket to see David Lee Roth, wouldn't you wanna hear him belt out a few old VH tunes?

2- I think at this time Ozzy & the three remaining Sabbath members were fighting for the legacy of Sabbath. In other words, each party wanted to appear to the public as being the reason the reason Black Sabbath was successful. Sabbath released two AWESOME albums with Dio (Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules) and of course Ozzy released Blizzard & Diary. Sabbath had also just released a live album with Dio singing a bunch of old Ozzy-era Sabbath songs, and I think Ozzy wanted to "get back" at Sabbath and show the world he was the real deal.

also the fact that ozzy owed jet another record and because they wanted away from don arden they weren't about to waste a new studio album on him or a live album of their material, a sabbath record makes sense as a perfect way of ending the record deal while also reminding sabbath and sabbath heads that ozzy was still kicking arse

[hansolo]

also the fact that ozzy owed jet another record and because they wanted away from don arden they weren't about to waste a new studio album on him or a live album of their material, a sabbath record makes sense as a perfect way of ending the record deal while also reminding sabbath and sabbath heads that ozzy was still kicking arse[/quote]

Right, Imagine your the best new guitarist of 1981 and your boss says we gotta do an album of other peoples songs - AKA my old stuff for the new release. I'm a huge Sabbath & Tony fan but I'm not on a Sabbath site discussing Sabbath, cause it's all about Randy! Randy was young and creative with much to prove and do. I won't argue with valid points of other members about how Randy's Sabbath versions would go down because of the futility of it all and we will never hear that - Damn right I would love to hear it! But Randy was truly special but only scratched the surface of what he could do. If I must imagine what if with all I know about the subject, I would guess he would leave Ozzy. I don't know if the music he would of created would be as popular or as accepted as BOO and DOAM. Maybe back to Quiet Riot? He always seemed melody/song oriented, so Yeah it probably would be good, if not a guitarists' guitarist. Jazz? Polka? New wave?