Randy's Job

[distortionplus]

I'm a little bewildered by "Randy's job" comments that I see from time to time. Those words are bandied about in a way that makes one think Ozzy & Sharon had a time clock Randy was punching at the studio or behind the stage curtain. Though she might have if she could have gotten away with it. Or that Randy looked at his Ozzy gig in a way that was motivated by a pay check and not the music. I think thats a stretch to discribe Randy's time with QR or Ozzy as his job. If he thought of it as a job, then he appears to have loved and was very dedicated to it. At least at first he was. We all speculate and debate about stuff having to do with the members of the band and BOO & DOAM along with the tours that followed. I would think that if Randy had grown to hate his work/time with Ozzy we by now would have heard that from the Rhoads family.

Back to back albums and tours probably had wore him down. Also being with Ozzy 24/7 for months on end would be tough for anyone to handle. I figure he wanted and needed break more than anything and there might not have been one in his future if he stayed with Ozzy's band. Maybe Sharon was such a slave driver after the DOAM tour it was planned to be right back in the studio then right back on the road again with little or no break.

[Paul Wolfe]

Okay, the "job" comments are mine, so I'll try to explain. When I sat down and talked to Frank Santa Cruz, he told me about taking lessons with Randy and how Randy could play any and every style very fluently. Frank said he brought in a bass one day and Randy ripped out funk and disco grooves just as effortlessly as the spotlight solo we all love. Frank said Randy could play everything on the radio and was like a chameleon on the guitar - he could play every style.

It was Frank who first described Randy's playing with Ozzy as a job. Not "job" as in something to hate 9 to 5, but "job" as in that's what he was hired to do. As I've mentioned elsewhere, if Randy had been tapped to play with Earth, Wind and Fire, his "job" would have been to play funky guitar rather than metal guitar and he would have been adept at that style.

Remember, Randy loved to teach the guitar, but teaching was his "job" because that's how he earned his money.

So, guitar playing was his passion, but the particular style he played with Ozzy was the job he was hired for. Remember, when Randy auditioned, a drunk Ozzy said, "You've got the job."

Hope that clears up what I meant by the term "job"

[distortionplus]

Yes clears things up and puts the idea of Randy's job, and puts it in context. I would assume rightly or wrongly though Randy would not have auditioned for Ozzy or at least ended up not taking the gig if he honestly prefered playing a different musical genre.

I have never heard if he was personally enthused about the gig before he left. I don't remember even roughly how long it was from "you got the job" to actually going to England. Again I'm speculating here but during that time would he not have been reaquainting himself with Black Sabbath material and working on ideas that fit the Ozzy template would he not? It seems very Randy like that he would have. I can't imagine considering what has been stated about his dedication to his craft that he just would have showed up unprepared.

[frank]

Yes clears things up and puts the idea of Randy's job, and puts it in context. I would assume rightly or wrongly though Randy would not have auditioned for Ozzy or at least ended up not taking the gig if he honestly prefered playing a different musical genre.

I have never heard if he was personally enthused about the gig before he left. I don't remember even roughly how long it was from "you got the job" to actually going to England. Again I'm speculating here but during that time would he not have been reaquainting himself with Black Sabbath material and working on ideas that fit the Ozzy template would he not? It seems very Randy like that he would have. I can't imagine considering what has been stated about his dedication to his craft that he just would have showed up unprepared.

randy was rather ambivalent about taking the gig.

randy: "do you know who ozzy osbourne is?"
me: "yeah. black sabbath. i have some albums but i'm not a real big fan"
randy: "no, me either. he's starting up a band and he wants me to play in it.
what do you think?"
me: "wow. that's a great opportunity. think of the people you will meet."
randy: "yeah, that's what my mom said too."

the time between the audition and his going to england was mere weeks. it all happened really fast.

i don't believe randy imagined doing music in the style of black sabbath. at any rate, he was never a 'dyed-in-the-wool" metal head nor did he ever embrace the life-style. he was simply 'randy'.

frank.

[dmnjr]

at any rate, he was never a 'dyed-in-the-wool" metal head nor did he ever embrace the life-style. he was simply 'randy'.

Those last 4 words speak volumes about who he was and how he is perceived by us fans. Frank, thanks again for the insight!

[Vtrockgod]

I don't think there's anything wrong with refering to what Randy did with Ozzy as his "job" because that's how he got paid. It's no different than what I do for work or the cover band that I play in: whether or not you enjoy it, you're getting compensated for providing a product or service. And while it's been acknowledged by everyone, including Randy, that he was not a Black Sabbath fan, that actually was a blessing. Instead of getting Sabbath 2.0, we got something that was fresh and unique but still rocked. And Ozzy himself has stated that he was very frustrated with Sabbath's musical direction at the end. I don't think it was Randy trying to adapt to Ozzy as much as Ozzy providing a vehicle for Randy to spread his wings: those Ozzy records are a huge leap for RR from the QR records and we're talking only a couple years.

[Stiltzkin]

Wonder how much of the songs were completed before Randy arrived?

[Paul Wolfe]

those Ozzy records are a huge leap for RR from the QR records and we're talking only a couple years.

But was Randy's playing a huge leap? His students seem to say he had the ability to play that stuff during the Quiet Riot days. Just because the records don't show that, doesn't mean his ability wasn't there. Had Ted Templeman produced the Quiet Riot records rather than the Van Halen records, we might not know who Ed is. Instead, the producers and management wanted a specific sound and weren't good at arranging nor pulling great performances out of the musicians. I like those records, but with a different producer they could have been phenomenal.

[Paul Wolfe]

Wonder how much of the songs were completed before Randy arrived?

Wasn't it Randy's job to write the songs with Bob? So 'complete' songs would be difficult without a guitar player, wouldn't they? You can write on the bass, but you need the other instruments to flesh it out.

[Vtrockgod]

those Ozzy records are a huge leap for RR from the QR records and we're talking only a couple years.

But was Randy's playing a huge leap? His students seem to say he had the ability to play that stuff during the Quiet Riot days. Just because the records don't show that, doesn't mean his ability wasn't there. Had Ted Templeman produced the Quiet Riot records rather than the Van Halen records, we might not know who Ed is. Instead, the producers and management wanted a specific sound and weren't good at arranging nor pulling great performances out of the musicians. I like those records, but with a different producer they could have been phenomenal.

I can only judge by my ears but, in my opinion, there is a huge difference between Randy's playing in QR and Ozzy. Certainly he was a talented guitarist while in QR but he was much more polished and confident a couple years later. Max Norman has stated that Randy was constantly improving and hadn't even hit his peak when he died. Also, he was taking guitar lessons on the road and dilligently practicing and trying to better himself. I don't know if RR and EVH is the best comparison because Eddie's style was already full blown when VH I was released and one could argue he never topped that record in terms of guitar playing. Randy was a guy who, it seemed, was constantly evolving and he certainly had the potential to produce more mindblowing work as opposed to Blizzard and DOAM being the peak. Even his tone (switching to Marshalls) and use of effects was much more noticeable when he joined Ozzy.

[GUITARIDOL5682]

Remember Ozzy had a temporary band before the RR line up and i'm sure some ideas would of been kept for songs on the Blizzard albums.

[Stiltzkin]

Remember Ozzy had a temporary band before the RR line up and i'm sure some ideas would of been kept for songs on the Blizzard albums.

...and since Bob was recruited before Randy, I doubt he nor Ozzy
would sit on their asses waiting for sunshine

[Paul Wolfe]

I don't know if RR and EVH is the best comparison because Eddie's style was already full blown when VH I was released and one could argue he never topped that record in terms of guitar playing.

Having hear a large number of Van Halen demos, I can say that Ted Templeman had a HUGE part in creating the Van Halen sound that we were introduced to in 1978. The same songs were similar, and good, but not the classics from the first, second and third records.

Since it was Ted who decided that Eruption should be recorded, without him the iconic first record would have been different. Imagine Ted recording Quiet Riot and hearing Randy blow off his Laughing Gas solo... it would have made it to tape and would have been the standard by which others are measured.

[Paul Wolfe]

Remember Ozzy had a temporary band before the RR line up and i'm sure some ideas would of been kept for songs on the Blizzard albums.

...and since Bob was recruited before Randy, I doubt he nor Ozzy
would sit on their asses waiting for sunshine

Sure, some of the ideas were there before Randy got to England, but the quote I was responding to was:

Wonder how much of the songs were completed before Randy arrived?

The key word being "completed"... We all know many of the songs on Blizzard can be traced back to Quiet Riot, so unless Bob had the first two QR records from a time when he was in Japan, I'd say the songs were not completed until Randy and Bob were together.

[Vtrockgod]

I don't know if RR and EVH is the best comparison because Eddie's style was already full blown when VH I was released and one could argue he never topped that record in terms of guitar playing.

Having hear a large number of Van Halen demos, I can say that Ted Templeman had a HUGE part in creating the Van Halen sound that we were introduced to in 1978. The same songs were similar, and good, but not the classics from the first, second and third records.

Since it was Ted who decided that Eruption should be recorded, without him the iconic first record would have been different. Imagine Ted recording Quiet Riot and hearing Randy blow off his Laughing Gas solo... it would have made it to tape and would have been the standard by which others are measured.

There's no doubt a producer can have a huge impact on how a band sounds and is presented. But I do think the RR of 1980/1981 was a significantly better player than the one who recorded the QR records, even if Templeton had produced those records. It's an interesting "what if?" scenario but I personally think VH all around was a much better band and had better songs than QR in the '70s (which is the main reason they were signed and QR wasn't), regardless of who was producing. And while I don't think RR's work was as good as EVH's at that point (nothing to be ashamed of there because EVH set the musical world ablaze), I think he took a huge leap forward with Ozzy. Part of that was because of his ability improving, but he was also given a forum where he could stretch his musical wings. "Laughing Gas" is a good piece, but it never tore my head off like "Eruption" did (and there's plenty of Rhoad's work that has nearly moved me to tears) but, again, it's an interesting "what if?" thought.

In my opinion, the first two Ozzy records, guitarwise, are as good or better than the first two records from any guitar player bursting on the scene. To me, the difference is that if EVH had passed away after VHII, one could argue he already had hit his pinnacle (and keep in mind my favorite VH record is actually "Fair Warning". But in terms of pure impact, nothing touches VHI). I've read multiple sources say that Randy was just getting better and better and hadn't hit his full stride. In football terms, I've always thought of EVH as Jim Brown and RR as Gale Sayers: Gayle COULD have been better and broken Brown's records but his career was cut short by injuries.

I certainly respect your opinion, but we just have different viewpoints. We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable!