Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

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CanuckRhoadsFan
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by CanuckRhoadsFan »

This debate always seems to pop up. :)

To me, they're two different styles in many ways. I see EVH as more of a rock guitarist, and Randy as more of a metal guitarist. Randy certainly did more to expand and further metal guitar. EVH did lots to further rock guitar.

While some may argue that rock and metal guitar are the same, I beg to differ. I also think that EVH was more extroverted than Randy, and tooted his own horn more. Randy was considerably quieter and more modest.

In some ways, they are yin and yang.

The big difference is that Ed has lived long enough to see his playing become passé and outdated. Most every new rock player has Van Halen-esque chops to play at an international level. Metal guitarists more so.

Ed has not done anything groundbreaking for years. He noodles away on old tunes and is stuck in a rut. Randy passed away before he saw his style become passé.

Now I might be a bit biased, but this is where Randy had the edge on Ed. Whereas Ed was, and still is, stuck in a certain style (albeit one that was important for its time), Randy's extensive knowledge of music in general, and appreciation of other forms of music, would have carried him further in his musical journey. I think there is little doubt he would have transcended genres. Sadly, we (and he) didn't get the chance to see this happen.

EVH and Randy were/are monster talents, but only one, Randy, was a true musical prodigy. EVH was not. He was/is an exceptional player that made his mark on music at a certain point in time, and has lived on that ever since. Randy's work shows progression, even over the course of two albums. Can we say the same of EVH? IMO, no.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

The thing is, the interview I'm referring to is from July 1982... now, Ed was aware of Randy being with Ozzy and the plane crash - how couldn't he be when a local kid goes through what Randy did - but how versed he was with Randy's playing with Ozzy at that time is questionable...

Van Halen had just finished recording Diver Down (which is what Jas Obrecht) was interviewing Ed about. So in the time that Blizzard and Diary were out, VH was touring Women and Children First, recording Fair Warning, touring Fair Warning and recording Diver Down. In addition, Ed was heavily into Allen Holdsworth at the time. So, how much of Randy's playing with Ozzy had he heard then? He was busy doing his own thing at the time.

In addition, we have to remember that Ed had seen Randy with Quiet Riot (which he doesn't mention in the interview because Quiet Riot was non-existent in 1982) and that very well could have been Ed's only real knowledge of Randy's playing. So Ed's ego + limited knowledge of Randy's body of work could easily lead him to a comment like he made.

After he was asked about Randy so much he may have looked into Randy's playing with Ozzy and found out how good he was. I don't think I've ever read any comments from any of Van Halen's members regarding Randy, other than that one quote from Ed.

Mike Anthony's opinion would be interesting now that he plays with Satch... I wonder what he remembers about Quiet Riot in the club days?
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by oth »

I doubt it.I have seen none or few comments ed has made about any of his peers from the entire 1980s shred scene.He only mentions clapton and obscure non-rock players but entirely omits the obvious clan from his active period.Ed is jealous and enjoys his throne.Im sure the fact that randy made it from the clubs and was chosen as GP's fave new player of the year in 1981 would have made ed freak out and check out rr's playing in great detail. No doubt about that.
I heard another jas obrecht interview from pre 1980 and ed is asking/pleading jo to be on the cover of GP and how much he wants that.ED is almost ocd about press coverage especially his GP coverage.He is very proud of winning all the GP polls.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Stiltzkin »

You know, Randy didn't live to make a bad album...
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

oth wrote:I heard another jas obrecht interview from pre 1980 and ed is asking/pleading jo to be on the cover of GP and how much he wants that.

I've heard that one too... I believe Ed heard Randy's playing with Oz and refuses to comment because he'd have to praise the guy, however, he most likely heard it after the fact, like, "What's the big deal with this guy?"

Like I said, I'd like to hear Mike Anthony's take on Randy, because he was there for the club days and Satch has respect for what Randy did...
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by CanuckRhoadsFan »

Stiltzkin wrote:You know, Randy didn't live to make a bad album...
Precisely my point above. EVH has made several bad albums. This is where Randy, I feel, had the musical perspective EVH does not. He always struck me as having a more refined and varied musical palate than Ed, and also the ability to see what worked and what did not. Case in point, Ozzy's first two albums which RR played on. Randy did wonders with a limited budget and limited time. Comparatively, Ed has had much larger budgets in subsequent years, and produced much less.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

So, out of curiosity... which records by VH were the 'bad' ones? Even VH III was at least as good as the first Quiet Riot record...
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by tedeeoo »

Ed was a lot more aware of most of the 80's guys than you might think, there are several of them that have taken up Ed's offer to come visit him at 5150 studios, the one that comes to mind immediately is Paul Gilbert. I have also read that it was Ed who took Warren Demartini to the Charvel factory for the first time. He also gave Jake his phone # at Donington 84' and has had Matthias Jabs of the Scorpions at his place more than a few times. I also remember a Guitar Player column he did one time called "In The Listening Room" and he knew who all of the players were (including Paul Gilbert and Yngwie). Yes, he has a huge ego but he pays attention a whole lot more than he'd like anyone to believe. Michael Anthony would be an interesting person to talk to, but to me the guy you'd really want to ask about the guitar scene in L.A. back then is George Lynch, he was there for all of it.

Paul, you made an excellent point a few post up, and that is that Ed's biggest exposure to Randy may have been Quiet Riot RR, not the Ozzy version of Randy. I think Ed was probably a lot more aware of Randy than he would ever let on, they both came up in the same area and era so he had to be. To compare them is a little unfair to me, Ed completely changed the face of rock guitar as we know it, Randy just never got the chance.
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CanuckRhoadsFan
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by CanuckRhoadsFan »

Paul Wolfe wrote:So, out of curiosity... which records by VH were the 'bad' ones? Even VH III was at least as good as the first Quiet Riot record...
For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, Balance, and VHIII, IMO.

VHIII may have been "at least as good as the first Quiet Riot record", but it's not what I would call a good album. Neither is the first QR album, to be honest - and I know I'm not the only fan to acknowdledge that - QR were still finding their sound. The Gary Cherone era of VH is widely viewed as a low point, even by band members themselves, if I'm not mistaken.

VH are a mixed bag, musically.

To once again quote a musician friend of mine, "Eddie Van Halen is an amazing guitar player with bad taste in music".

I'm not going off on EVH just to make Randy look better. The music of VH, in the instances I referred to above, speaks for itself.

EVH will always have a huge place of importance in the world of guitar, but my point is, he made some missteps musically.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by kamalayka »

oth wrote:Ed is my favorite guitarist.Ed's a jerk.From the club days onward.RR didnt talk about him much cuz im sure ed snubbed him at the clubs.From the way evh has backstabbed all his singers and MA he s just not a nice dude.Some of the stuff he says on youtube is really,really nasty.
Love his playing.Phenomenal.

On Youtube, somebody had posted a home video from twenty or so years ago of Eddie visiting their dying teenage son in the hospital. I don't know if it's still on there, but if it is it's proof that you shouldn't judge a human being based on staged media fights and other bs!
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:So, out of curiosity... which records by VH were the 'bad' ones? Even VH III was at least as good as the first Quiet Riot record...
The Gary Cherone era of VH is widely viewed as a low point, even by band members themselves, if I'm not mistaken.

VH are a mixed bag, musically.
You hit it right with that last part... they are a mixed bag. VH III is a very good record. It doesn't sound like Van Halen or Van Halen II, so it is "widely viewed as a low point". They departed from their classic sound on the records you mention... is that 'bad' or 'different'?

You also say the first Quiet Riot record wasn't so good... the post I was building on says Randy never made a bad record... hmmm.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

tedeeoo wrote:Michael Anthony would be an interesting person to talk to, but to me the guy you'd really want to ask about the guitar scene in L.A. back then is George Lynch, he was there for all of it.

Sure, but George has talked about it. I've never heard Mike's take on those days. Plus, Mike was with Ed so he'd no for certain how Ed reacted to Randy and he'd be able to discuss how VH felt about QR since he's no longer involved with VH to be censored.
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Shockwave »

I think Eddie is one of the biggest pricks in the industry, great player though of course, maybe not so much now since he seems to have changed over the last couple years , but for a streak of almost 30yrs he was kind of a guitar snob(rightfully so!)

I think he may have felt threatened by Randy back then and some of his comments reflected that..
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by CanuckRhoadsFan »

Paul Wolfe wrote:
CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:
Paul Wolfe wrote:So, out of curiosity... which records by VH were the 'bad' ones? Even VH III was at least as good as the first Quiet Riot record...
The Gary Cherone era of VH is widely viewed as a low point, even by band members themselves, if I'm not mistaken.

VH are a mixed bag, musically.
You hit it right with that last part... they are a mixed bag. VH III is a very good record. It doesn't sound like Van Halen or Van Halen II, so it is "widely viewed as a low point". They departed from their classic sound on the records you mention... is that 'bad' or 'different'?

You also say the first Quiet Riot record wasn't so good... the post I was building on says Randy never made a bad record... hmmm.
Well, your mileage may vary with VHIII; I personally don't care for the record - it is, IMO, one of the weakest, if not the weakest entry, in their catalogue. Different, yes, and not in a good way. It's all opinion, really.

In mentioning the first QR record, I was trying to be objective - comparing the two records to show I wasn't biased, and looking at both for what they are, warts and all. I don't consider Randy's playing sub par on this record, just....undeveloped, and not what we came to expect from him in the Ozzy era. I guess I should have qualified that statement better.

Both are flawed records, but keep in mind one record came from a band trying to find its sound, and the other came from a band that already had an established sound. In essence, fledgling musicians vs. more mature musicians.

Again, YMMV. :)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

Post by Paul Wolfe »

The thing with VH 3 is that if it were released under a different band name and no mention of Ed being the guitar player, the record would have gotten much better reviews. The record is considered 'bad' only by comparison to what people expect from Van Halen, and that is unfair.

Regardless of the speculation, Randy would have (had he chosen to record again) eventually put out a record that Ozzy fans disliked... then again, had he lived, 90 % of Randy's fans wouldn't be his fans anyway...

I understand your point Cannuck, I just see it differently.

Almost everyone I hear talking negatively about Ed's playing simply wish he would always play like he did on the first record. He doesn't. Randy would have moved away from metal as well... (and this is not directed at you Cannuck) I get so tired of people saying Ed plateaued, etc. and Randy would be doing the most incredible things if he were here. That's all speculation about Randy and unfair to Ed. Ed is still a better player than everyone on this message board.

I respect the fact that you posted that your opinion is that the record was no good. I wish more postings would include the term 'in my opinion'.
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