Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen Question.

[Tito]

i still see randy playing chamber music or having a full orchestra behind him.(matt forgive my ignorance if i got the chamber part wrong as far as how i worded it)?but i dont put it past him to throw in the electric behind an orchestra to spice things up but thats just me thinking out loud..then again he might have got burnt out and wound up goin crazy with all the contractual obligations he was facing with the upcoming record and tour?now i will say that i have never liked watching eddie playing live...but i have 4 of the vh albums that to this day i dont get tired of listening to!!!actual albums and i have a small record player to listen to them..i respect the shit out of the young man that changed the way a guitar could be approached(EVH)and thats hands down more so than jimi clapton page etc...with randy he was constantly looking for something different and thought way too much about his playing where as eddie would say if it sounds good then it is..2 different entities totally!!!!!it may be a good thing on both the individuals frame of mind at the time but one musician died and the other musician died a long time ago whatever his reasons were..so in closing eddie was a phenominal musician and there isnt much of randy's catalogue to compare what he truly would have accomplished in his journey...just a thought dont take this out of context!!!!!!!!!LOVE YOU'S!!!!!!!!

[CanuckRhoadsFan]

The thing with VH 3 is that if it were released under a different band name and no mention of Ed being the guitar player, the record would have gotten much better reviews. The record is considered 'bad' only by comparison to what people expect from Van Halen, and that is unfair.

Regardless of the speculation, Randy would have (had he chosen to record again) eventually put out a record that Ozzy fans disliked... then again, had he lived, 90 % of Randy's fans wouldn't be his fans anyway...

I understand your point Cannuck, I just see it differently.

Almost everyone I hear talking negatively about Ed's playing simply wish he would always play like he did on the first record. He doesn't. Randy would have moved away from metal as well... (and this is not directed at you Cannuck) I get so tired of people saying Ed plateaued, etc. and Randy would be doing the most incredible things if he were here. That's all speculation about Randy and unfair to Ed. Ed is still a better player than everyone on this message board.

I respect the fact that you posted that your opinion is that the record was no good. I wish more postings would include the term 'in my opinion'.

Great post, Paul!

And I respect the fact that you like the record. You raise some very valid points here, and I completely agree that Randy would have moved away from metal. I also agree that metal fans may have also cried foul because Randy did something different, had he lived, even though it would just be a logical progression on hs musical journey.

Thanks also for acknowledging that my opinion is just my opinion! people sometimes take debates about things way too personally! It's nice to just have a friendly debate about an issue, and not have people think that you're attacking them on a personal level!

[CanuckRhoadsFan]

i still see randy playing chamber music or having a full orchestra behind him.(matt forgive my ignorance if i got the chamber part wrong as far as how i worded it)?but i dont put it past him to throw in the electric behind an orchestra to spice things up but thats just me thinking out loud..then again he might have got burnt out and wound up goin crazy with all the contractual obligations he was facing with the upcoming record and tour?now i will say that i have never liked watching eddie playing live...but i have 4 of the vh albums that to this day i dont get tired of listening to!!!actual albums and i have a small record player to listen to them..i respect the shit out of the young man that changed the way a guitar could be approached(EVH)and thats hands down more so than jimi clapton page etc...with randy he was constantly looking for something different and thought way too much about his playing where as eddie would say if it sounds good then it is..2 different entities totally!!!!!it may be a good thing on both the individuals frame of mind at the time but one musician died and the other musician died a long time ago whatever his reasons were..so in closing eddie was a phenominal musician and there isnt much of randy's catalogue to compare what he truly would have accomplished in his journey...just a thought dont take this out of context!!!!!!!!!LOVE YOU'S!!!!!!!!

LOVE the orchestra idea, Tito! I could totally see Randy doing this (and much better than Metallica and KISS, I might add!), and the result being incredible.

It's fun to imagine what Randy would have done, but also sad to acknowledge that he's no longer with us, and that the world was robbed of a rare talent.

[Tito]

i get that from listening to the band jam and you could tell randy was going in a different direction!it was still in the beginning stages but he knew where he wanted to go...

[Geo Sav]

i get that from listening to the band jam and you could tell randy was going in a different direction!it was still in the beginning stages but he knew where he wanted to go...

Good call on that T. I think that is just a slice of where he was headed.

[oth]

mmm

[oth]

Ed was a lot more aware of most of the 80's guys than you might think, there are several of them that have taken up Ed's offer to come visit him at 5150 studios, the one that comes to mind immediately is Paul Gilbert. I have also read that it was Ed who took Warren Demartini to the Charvel factory for the first time. He also gave Jake his phone # at Donington 84' and has had Matthias Jabs of the Scorpions at his place more than a few times. I also remember a Guitar Player column he did one time called "In The Listening Room" and he knew who all of the players were (including Paul Gilbert and Yngwie). Yes, he has a huge ego but he pays attention a whole lot more than he'd like anyone to believe. Michael Anthony would be an interesting person to talk to, but to me the guy you'd really want to ask about the guitar scene in L.A. back then is George Lynch, he was there for all of it.

Wow,i never knew about the WdM and PG story.Thats amazing.Ive never heard warren talking about it.where did you hear this?
The jake e lee story is the only one i know about and also giving Vai a nod.

[sytharnia]

Ed was a lot more aware of most of the 80's guys than you might think, there are several of them that have taken up Ed's offer to come visit him at 5150 studios, the one that comes to mind immediately is Paul Gilbert. I have also read that it was Ed who took Warren Demartini to the Charvel factory for the first time. He also gave Jake his phone # at Donington 84' and has had Matthias Jabs of the Scorpions at his place more than a few times. I also remember a Guitar Player column he did one time called "In The Listening Room" and he knew who all of the players were (including Paul Gilbert and Yngwie). Yes, he has a huge ego but he pays attention a whole lot more than he'd like anyone to believe. Michael Anthony would be an interesting person to talk to, but to me the guy you'd really want to ask about the guitar scene in L.A. back then is George Lynch, he was there for all of it.

Wow,i never knew about the WdM and PG story.Thats amazing.Ive never heard warren talking about it.where did you hear this?
The jake e lee story is the only one i know about and also giving Vai a nod.

I remember warren say he was talking to eddie and eddie asked him why he doesn't do tapping and warren said he didn't want to copy ed and ed said go ahead everyone else does

[tedeeoo]

Hey,

The story about Warren was in a forum, maybe the gear page or metro amps, I can't remember for sure, It may have even been an interview with Pearcy. It is also of note, that Warren's famed Marshall (the one Lay It Down was recorded on and the same one Marshall looked at for one of its re-issue amps) was one of Eddie's back-up amps from the 84 tour. The Paul Gilbert story is straight from Paul, he says that's when his hearing got damaged.

Paul,

I hope you didn't take my post wrong, Michael Anthony would be an excellent interview in regards to the L.A. guitar scene (specifically Randy and Ed) back then. I also think it would be interesting to talk to Chris Holmes from W.A.S.P. as I have read he was a childhood friend of Eddie. I've never really heard or read where George Lynch talked about any kind of relationship any of them had when they were playing clubs and whatnot, but I sure would like to see that if anyone can tell me where to find it. Most of what I've seen George say is real general, mostly about playing and things of that nature, not how well they might have actually known each other. Surely someone like him or Michael Anthony or even Kelli Garni would know did Ed and Randy ever talk after a show?

[Geo Sav]

Frank may have some interesting info on this.

[oth]

I always thought the sound of the opening rythme on 'Lay it down' was one of the most killer sounding riffs ever soundwise.Full-on crunch.Coo; that evh had some input there.Yeah Chris Homes would be the man for evh info.He was the one who gave evh the shark guitar-before it was a shark!

[Stiltzkin]

There's a bunch of VH influence in the early RATT albums.
Take 'Round and round' ... It borrows equal parts from both
VH's 'Panama' and 'Unchained'

[Geo Sav]

Some great riffs there.

[distortionplus]

Going a bit off the main topic here, but why did EVH never do a solo instrumental album I wonder? The pretty much universally acknowledged greastest living guitar innovator/player of the day never puts out a record showcasing his talent.

I started to comment eariler in this thread that EVH seemed to be the type that might do two or three off the cuff solos then pick the best. (Many of EVH solos didn't seem to fit the song well to my ear. Lacking a direction.) Where as RR thought of the whole song as a composition, making sure all the dots connected perfectly.

[oth]

There s a song called the wild life or something thats evh solo.
Then there is the star fleet thing with brian may.

I find the best guitarists play in the confines of a basic song with real band- like randy in ozzy or ed in vh.

I think i would enjoy listening to evh soloing to nothing but a beat would be as interesting as joe satriani and vai and all the other shredders.