Ultimate Rhoads

You know how some thoughts just pop into your head out of nowhere?

So when I was talking with Frank, he said something about metal guitar being Randy's "job" while in Ozzy's band. Frank said Randy was very adept at all styles of music, which makes sense with all the teaching he did, but that being a metal player was what he was paid to do.

Following this train of thought, in Quiet Riot, Randy was a glam rock/pop player, because that is what his job with that band was. So, the 'quantum leap' in skill we all talk about from QR to Ozzy... was it really a leap in skill or was Randy simply able to open up with more of his capable talent in Ozzy's band than he was with Quiet Riot?

I remember Kevin DuBrow saying that he wasn't amazed by Randy's playing in Ozzy's band because he'd heard Randy play that well on countless occasions.

Anyway, just a random thought that popped up while i was aimlessly wandering the 'Net.

I think he always had the talent but Ozzy opened the opportunity for him to use it because he was making a style for himself so Randy had that freedom where Quiet Riot had a sound and had to have it for a record deal so Randy could't have that freedom. So I agree with you for sure

BowTie29 wrote:I think he always had the talent but Ozzy opened the opportunity for him to use it because he was making a style for himself so Randy had that freedom where Quiet Riot had a sound and had to have it for a record deal so Randy could't have that freedom. So I agree with you for sure

Quiet Riot couldn't get a record deal in the US, they had to go to Japan to get a deal. Working with more established, more talented musicians in the Blizzard of Ozz gave Randy the freedom to make his quantum leap. It was lucky that Ozzy found all three of them!

Quiet Riot had a US deal and lost it due to poor management and Ive heard because they kept Kevin. Many were saying that if they lost him then they'd get one. I also agree that more talented musicians like Lee and Bob helped too

I (might I ask) will chime in for a sec on this......listen to the Sabbath stuff Randy covered (hated yet,love to express). At 1st when the opportunity presented itself,he didn't want the gig. In time he must have said.....you know what,I know this and I'll add my take on it - have fun with it.

Song's I've hated for years now seem to be an eye opener (i.e. - hated the singer and/or the band) yet,bring something new or different to the game,whole new song with your flare. I admire Randy for taking the challenge of playing Sabbath but,he was sick of playing just that.

Paul; are you now a classical guitarist?, I thought only us classical people dissected music LOL

Back to the op...

I think what was very different between his time with Quiet Riot and with Ozzy was the context his playing was set in. The members of the Ozzy Osbourne band as a unit, were incredibly gifted song writers. So the biggest 'leap' to me wasn't as Randy the guitarist, but Randy the musician and artist. Working with a musician of Bob Daisley's ability especially, must have really helped Randy grow.

To put it plainly, the new songs with Ozzy now meant he had incredible chord sequences to solo over - and made his playing sound all the more potent because of this IMHO. Quiet Riot's songs were musically plainer and not so exotic in the choice of chords and scales etc, so his playing didn't get to shine as much as with Ozzy!

Of course, I believe he improved as an instrumentalist too! But it was his creative mind's focus and improvement that shaped his playing. A healthy focus makes a great musician!!

Matt

Anybody know the time in between QRII and BOO off the top of thier head? His practice habits and growth as a player probably had a lot to do with it. He was never one to rest on his past achivements as we all know. Being in a new band doing a different type of music sparks creativity, and really let him incorporate his love for classical .This is especially true when one has been in a band going no where. Once read same thing with K. Dubrow saying he had heard it all before. I think he had heard various riffs or licks etc., not stuff like on the songs Mr.C, OTM, S.A.T.O, YCKRR, DOAMM, no way. Maybe he was trying to play down the his growth out of QR for some reason. The other things already mentioned like seasoned musicians I'm sure were also huge factors in the so called Quantum Leap.

Cpt Matt Sparrow wrote:Paul; are you now a classical guitarist?, I thought only us classical people dissected music LOL

No Matthew, I'm a bass player now! My eyes are open, I see clearly now...

Cpt Matt Sparrow wrote:I think what was very different between his time with Quiet Riot and with Ozzy was the context his playing was set in...

To put it plainly, the new songs with Ozzy now meant he had incredible chord sequences to solo over - and made his playing sound all the more potent because of this IMHO. Quiet Riot's songs were musically plainer and not so exotic in the choice of chords and scales etc, so his playing didn't get to shine as much as with Ozzy!

This is what I was thinking, as well. Randy has been quoted as saying there wasn't a lot of room for guitar in his old band... he said Ozzy's band had more room for him to open up. When I thought of it in that context, the great change in his playing didn't seem so surprising anymore. I just hadn't ever thought of it that way.

In addition, Randy's also been quoted as saying he was in quite a rut at the time he went to audition for Ozzy. This opportunity obviously gave him a way to break out of that rut.

In Quiet Riot there was a "pressure" to play music a certain way according to what the record company wanted. With Ozzy there was a greater freedom to express due to the "lack of expectation" in where Ozzy's career was going at the time.

RR-ElectricAngel wrote:In Quiet Riot there was a "pressure" to play music a certain way according to whatthe record company wanted. With Ozzy there was a greater freedom to express due to the "lack of expectation" in where Ozzy's career was going at the time.

Exactly.

We've gone over the huge 'leap forward' in Randy's playing from QR to Ozzy, and in the past it was often attributed to his talent increasing in a short period of time. What occurred to me when i posted this thread was that his talent probably didn't increase as much as it appears. I believe he was probably capable of playing that stuff even while still playing the clubs in L.A. He didn't, because it didn't fit the band he was in.

He may also have been under the mistaken impression that playing to the full extent of his ability wouldn't work within the context of the glam stuff the band was doing. Had he been confident enough to just play the way he wanted and push the envelope of the genre, the EVH vs RR debate may have been blown to hell much earlier.

I don't know if 'confidence' is the right term, but I wish he'd have pushed that envelope rather than join Ozzy...

I wouldnt believe anything KD said.The guy was an egomaniac and couldnt handle the thought that randy blossomed after he escaped from his band-which was a boring band.

oth wrote:I wouldnt believe anything KD said.The guy was an egomaniac and couldnt handle the thought that randy blossomed after he escaped from his band-which was a boring band.

I'd believe he heard phenomenal playing from Randy.

When Ed recorded the Beat It solo with Michael Jackson, David Lee Roth was asked what he thought of such a phenomenal solo. Dave said that while it was a good solo, he'd heard Ed play many amazing things as far back as '75, so it was so amazing to him.

With that in mind, I can see Kevin saying something similar.

IMHO Quiet Riot was not a boring band. I don't know how many QR/Randy shows you have heard or seen. Randy's playing was amazing. Very exciting stuff. The records were not that great but good solo's. Randy did take riffs from QR and had a backlog of things (Revelation solo, Dee, You looking at me solo was Breaking up is a heartache) that made it onto Ozzy's albums. He had stopped teaching so he didn't practice 8-10 hours a day when he had students. I believe he played a lot but was more creating/jamming. I feel it's so much easier writing for heavy rock if you are a great musician who aspires to be much more or not as in to it. Opposed to loving rock and trying to write a great rock song or anthem (pressure). It's also nice having experienced musician to bounce ideas off. Maybe it was because the pressure was off on both albums. They had done a small UK tour when the recorded Diary and the outcome wasn't looking great. No BOO US release yet.

hansolo wrote:IMHO Quiet Riot was not a boring band.

I very much agree with you.