Who thinks Randy should of cut the sabbath songs?

watersfootball · Post by **watersfootball** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:40 pm

I know they were a big staple of the show and the fans like to hear it as the missed ozz in sabbath but, as heard in the audience bootlegs such as el paso, 1982, the songs really got old and I think Randy should have pushed harder to do more songs off of doam. Thoughts?

axeman_12656 · Post by **axeman_12656** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:49 pm

I think the songs might have got old to play.. But i don't for a second think it got old to the fans. I believe performing them was a good idea. I'm sure it really worked the crowd up. Keep in mind back then... most of the songs on Diary the crowd didn't even know.

hansolo · Post by **hansolo** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:34 am

F' Ozzy;...

electricmombie · Post by **electricmombie** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:52 pm

This show in general (El Paso 2/23/82) wasn't one of the better shows of the tour. This show came about around the time Randy and the band were at relative loggerheads with Sharon, Don and Ozzy over having to do the all-Sabbath-covers live album. There's tension galore during this show. That, and Ozzy's voice was a bit weak; probably from stress and his lifestyle at the time..

I usually only go as far as Kalamazoo 2/9/82 for the 'Diary' tour shows. It's of quite good sound quality as a soundboard source. That, and performance-wise and sound quality-wise, El Paso 2/23 is where it gets a bit downhill for me.

Randy probably wanted to play them Sabbath songs a bit less then usual by the time they did El Paso 2/23.

Ozzy still hasn't ever really phased out Sabbath material. He probably never will. He'll ALWAYS do "Paranoid". That, and Ozzy's voice wasn't in shape enough then to tackle the other rehearsed numbers from the 'Diary' album.

Cheers.

CanuckRhoadsFan · Post by **CanuckRhoadsFan** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:30 pm

As much as I admire Randy as a musician and think he's great, this was not, for one minute, a decision that was up to him.

Given what we know about how the O's conducted business, I seriously doubt that these Sabbath songs would have gotten cut from the set. As someone mentioned above, Ozzy still has Sabbath songs in his set. It's part of his past, and people do, to a certain extent, expect to hear a couple of Sabbath songs.

Randy really had no say in this, and may have even been threatened with dismissal if he rocked the boat on this issue...who knows? As highly as we regard Randy, put things in context; he was at the time, essentially, a "hired gun". We all know how integral he was to Ozzy's sound at this time, but that wasn't as obvious then. People did not know the profound effect he would have on Ozzy's career like we do today.

As time went on, if Randy would have lived, perhaps he would have said something, as I have no doubt the next album(s) with Randy and Ozzy would have been classics as well. This would have maybe given him some more clout. At the time, though, it would have been difficult for Randy to say anything. He just carried on like the consummate professional he was, and played the songs.

SLAGER · Post by **SLAGER** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:05 pm

I gotta admit that back in 1981 I was really psyched they played some Sab tunes live. I loved the BOO stuff totally, but had never seen Ozzy live before and thought it was a real thrill to hear him do some of the old songs I had been listening to for so many years.

Now, 30 years later, its easy to say I wish they didnt do that but at the time it fit the show well.

RR-ElectricAngel · Post by **RR-ElectricAngel** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:04 am

At the time Ozzy was still identified with Sabbath. It was part of the reason why fans went to the shows. With Randy Ozzy had an ace card up his sleeve. He knew the new BOO kicked ass (just ask Kelle Rhoads) but he needed the fans to show up first before he could unleash the new material on them. Let's face it fans want to know the songs before they go to the show. No one ever wants to see fans bored or taking a pee during a new song. As we all know, DOAM was the show of all shows. Everyone remembers the castle but very few (non bandwagon fans) remember the struggle to get there. On a business level it's brilliant because fans could now identify Ozzy with both Sabbath and going beyond that with BOO and DOAM.

Should Randy have cut the Sabbath songs? Personally...No. But that is what the Music Business is...a business. Maybe that's why I enjoy this era of Ozzy's solo music the most. It spoke to the heart first. It was inspiring, not contrived or set out to follow some sort of business model. I think that philosophy came later and exists to some degree today. Ozzy works his ass off and always wants to please the fans. Once you know what the fans like you have to pay attention. Sometimes that translates into old tunes and sometimes into music which follows those tastes.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:10 am

xx123456

electricmombie · Post by **electricmombie** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:03 pm

RR-ElectricAngel wrote:At the time Ozzy was still identified with Sabbath. It was part of the reason why fans went to the shows. With Randy Ozzy had an ace card up his sleeve. He knew the new BOO kicked ass (just ask Kelle Rhoads) but he needed the fans to show up first before he could unleash the new material on them. Let's face it fans want to know the songs before they go to the show. No one ever wants to see fans bored or taking a pee during a new song. As we all know, DOAM was the show of all shows. Everyone remembers the castle but very few (non bandwagon fans) remember the struggle to get there. On a business level it's brilliant because fans could now identify Ozzy with both Sabbath and going beyond that with BOO and DOAM.

Should Randy have cut the Sabbath songs? Personally...No. But that is what the Music Business is...a business. Maybe that's why I enjoy this era of Ozzy's solo music the most. It spoke to the heart first. It was inspiring, not contrived or set out to follow some sort of business model. I think that philosophy came later and exists to some degree today. Ozzy works his ass off and always wants to please the fans. Once you know what the fans like you have to pay attention. Sometimes that translates into old tunes and sometimes into music which follows those tastes.

Well said. I agree totally with your points. Makes for a great read. Thanks for that.

Cheers, mate.

electricmombie · Post by **electricmombie** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:06 pm

CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:As much as I admire Randy as a musician and think he's great, this was not, for one minute, a decision that was up to him.

Given what we know about how the O's conducted business, I seriously doubt that these Sabbath songs would have gotten cut from the set. As someone mentioned above, Ozzy still has Sabbath songs in his set. It's part of his past, and people do, to a certain extent, expect to hear a couple of Sabbath songs.

Randy really had no say in this, and may have even been threatened with dismissal if he rocked the boat on this issue...who knows? As highly as we regard Randy, put things in context; he was at the time, essentially, a "hired gun". We all know how integral he was to Ozzy's sound at this time, but that wasn't as obvious then. People did not know the profound effect he would have on Ozzy's career like we do today.

As time went on, if Randy would have lived, perhaps he would have said something, as I have no doubt the next album(s) with Randy and Ozzy would have been classics as well. This would have maybe given him some more clout. At the time, though, it would have been difficult for Randy to say anything. He just carried on like the consummate professional he was, and played the songs.

Great points you make above. Nice job, man. Thanks for a choice read. Cheers.

Bongo Christ · Post by **Bongo Christ** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:55 pm

People did not know the profound effect he would have on Ozzy's career like we do today.

Ozzy knew.

CanuckRhoadsFan · Post by **CanuckRhoadsFan** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:52 pm

electricmombie wrote:
CanuckRhoadsFan wrote:As much as I admire Randy as a musician and think he's great, this was not, for one minute, a decision that was up to him.

Given what we know about how the O's conducted business, I seriously doubt that these Sabbath songs would have gotten cut from the set. As someone mentioned above, Ozzy still has Sabbath songs in his set. It's part of his past, and people do, to a certain extent, expect to hear a couple of Sabbath songs.

Randy really had no say in this, and may have even been threatened with dismissal if he rocked the boat on this issue...who knows? As highly as we regard Randy, put things in context; he was at the time, essentially, a "hired gun". We all know how integral he was to Ozzy's sound at this time, but that wasn't as obvious then. People did not know the profound effect he would have on Ozzy's career like we do today.

As time went on, if Randy would have lived, perhaps he would have said something, as I have no doubt the next album(s) with Randy and Ozzy would have been classics as well. This would have maybe given him some more clout. At the time, though, it would have been difficult for Randy to say anything. He just carried on like the consummate professional he was, and played the songs.
Great points you make above. Nice job, man. Thanks for a choice read. Cheers.

Why thank you!

CanuckRhoadsFan · Post by **CanuckRhoadsFan** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Bongo Christ wrote:People did not know the profound effect he would have on Ozzy's career like we do today.

Ozzy knew.

He MAY have had an inkling, but let's be honest; Ozzy's state of mind at the time wasn't exactly clear.

I've always been of the opinion that he came to realize later, after Randy was gone, what a world-class talent he was. Randy's playing has stood the test of time, and IMO, Ozzy has never topped his output with that original group with Randy.

whoopiecat · Post by **whoopiecat** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:44 pm

Agreed! I believe one of Ozzy's bigger regrets in life was that he wasn't more clear-headed in the short time he had with Randy. I think the compliments he pays toward the man's personality and talent are said in retrospect and that has to really suck for him, as he most likely feels he squandered that time, especially near the end on the Diary tour.
If Ozzy was in the presence of such a gifted talent, you would think he would want to take better care of his voice and be in better shape physically, as well as mentally.
Like it or not, Ozzy was the weak link in terms of performers on the stage. Being the lead singer isn't an easy gig, but you have to have the discipline to take care of your voice, as it is your bread and butter.
Historically, Ozzy's main priority was getting high.
Going back on topic, like most have already said, it wasn't Randy's call to cut the Sabbath numbers, and though they had a brand new album that was tuned down a semitone, Ozzy wasn't comfortable vocally with the majority of Diary in a live setting. He had mentioned somewhere that OTM had to be the opener, as his voice wouldn't be able to handle it if it were later in the show.
So they sort of needed the Sabbath numbers to fill out the setlist.

~T.

watersfootball · Post by **watersfootball** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:29 pm

I do understand that slot of the fans wanted to hear sabbath songs it Randy hated them, as shown on the bootlegs, he made just about completely different songs out of them, which is very great, but I myself would rathe hear spam live or tonight or Anything really off doam record el paso 82 was Randys best guitar boots in m opinion because everyone wa in chaos, and everyone sounded like shut except for him, forcing him to step it up a notch

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Who thinks Randy should of cut the sabbath songs?

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