My last post about the crash.

[rokket]

The debate about the crash will, no doubt, be never ending. More 'theories' etc will always come up from time to time. One way to look at it though, is that no matter what is found (or not found) out, it doesn't change what happened, I wish it could.

I don't want to be here, on the site, and only talk about that day. I haven't got any pleasure at all, in going over all the reports etc if anything, it makes me both sad and angry at the same time.

Some of you have read what I've posted in regards to the crash, some thought it was a waste of time, others, I think, probably have concerns now similar to mine.

I'll finish up with this, and unless something really important crops up, this will be it from me on the crash.

Was Aycock high on cocaine that morning? The toxicology report says no.

Was Aycock an inexperienced pilot. The reports say no.

If flying like a crazy reckless idiot, would Don and Jake have had something to say to him about it, and to Randy and Rachel? Common sense say's they would.

Was the plane modified for wing tanks? It looks like it.

Was Calhoun's brother, who was there that day, in charge of aircraft maintenance? and did Aycock really just take the plane without asking anyone, or is it likely he would have asked Calhoun's brother? If so, was it mentioned that the plane had had a modification, and also not inspected for 12 months?

Was the crash investigation done thoroughly, with wreckage being examined to rule out a problem with the plane? It doesn't look like it.

I'll leave the last word to Phillip J. Kolezynski, a lawyer who's firm specializes in the field of aircraft crash cases, and you make up your own mind.

God Bless you Randy.

"Example of a Poorly Handled NTSB Investigation"

This true story reveals the NTSB's failure to always uncover the exact cause of a major air crash disaster. A number of years ago, the author supervised the liability defense of the air carrier which had a take off crash, in which 70 people died and one survived. The NTSB conducted a "Go Team" investigation and held public hearings. A suspected cause of the crash was that an external "door" or "hatch" was left open before take off, which resulted in terrible vibration (heard on the CVR) and aerodynamic anomalies recorded on the FDR. The pilot is believed to have misinterpreted the cause of the vibration perhaps fearing a structural failure. He did not apply sufficient power after lift off to sustain flight. The aircraft crashed into a trailer park stocked with liquid propane tanks. The pilot was the first to pay for his error with his life, and of course, unavailable to explain why he inexplicably failed to maintain flying speed. The suspected external hatch was not guarded by a "door open" warning light and was the type designed to be closed by ground service personnel. (Raise any questions?) The Board's Probable Cause was pure pilot error — failure to maintain flying speed!

A formal request made to the Board to examine the wreckage to search for the suspect hatch was denied. The NTSB investigators never found it. After they were done with the wreckage, they used an "articulating loader" to scoop up the airplane parts which were crunched and dropped into a dump truck. The truck then poured the evidence into a pile on the floor of a hangar whereupon it was turned over to us. My consultants found the suspect hatch and I turned it over to the Board member in charge at the public hearing. A hastily organized test flight test had already been attempted by the Board using a similar aircraft, but the Board was unable to duplicate the vibration condition. The Board returned the hatch.

Funded by the air carrier's insurer, we leased the same model airliner, equipped it with cameras, microphones and vibration sensors and conducted test fights in a remote location with "yours truly " in the jump seat. Video cameras captured the hatch which was, "intentionally left unsecured in pre-flight," flipping up in front of the leading edge of the wing during take off rotation. Guess what? Severe vibration was created by the hatch sticking up in front of one wing, which was recorded by equipment in the test airplane. The frequency and amplitude of the vibration matched the same signals on the accident airplane's CVR/FDR! We had proved the exact cause of the problem that caused the crash!

We filed, but the Board denied, a Petition For Reconsideration. They said that the pilot should have maintained flying speed. Yes, the pilot made a horrible mistake by not maintaining flying speed in a controllable airplane, but that wasn't the only cause.

The video tape footage and vibration/sound recordings were made into a documentary film and successfully used as demonstrative evidence to negotiate a multimillion settlement with other parties.

The NTSB Determines "Probable" Cause, Not Liability

The NTSB's charter under the Independent Safety Act of 1974, does not empower the Board to conduct investigations for the purpose of determining all causes with certainty. NTSB investigations are terminated after finding the "probable" cause. The NTSB admittedly does not attempt to allocate responsibility to various parties who may have caused a crash. Its not that NTSB investigators these days, aren't dedicated and thorough professionals - most of them are. The unfortunate reality is that they do not always have the funding and manpower to pinpoint all the causes.

The Probable Cause determination of the NTSB is not based on "evidence." The determination of proximate cause in a civil liability trial must be based on competent evidence. The NTSB may consider matters in reaching the probable cause determination, which could be excluded from evidence in civil litigation, because hundreds of years of jurisprudence has taught us that certain information is unreliable.

Unfortunately, for any "operator" involved in an air crash, the NTSB's most common determination is "Pilot Error."

[No1UNo]

I love your logic and your reasoning...a lot of it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your thought on this subject and for posting. Yes, sadly, it won't change anything but some of us still wonder "how" and "why" despite the terrible outcome.

[distortionplus]

My thoughts are what does it matter? It will bring none of them back? I can see wanting to find cause or blame, or possibly clearing someones name. In this case the pilot Aycock. The way I see it is if Randy saw Aycock flying in an unsafe manner which has been reported before he went up with him then Randy made a horrible mistake that cost him his life. No one forced him to get on the plane. It was such a senseless tragedy, but they happen all the time.

[rokket]

My thoughts are what does it matter? It will bring none of them back? I can see wanting to find cause or blame, or possibly clearing someones name. In this case the pilot Aycock. The way I see it is if Randy saw Aycock flying in an unsafe manner which has been reported before he went up with him then Randy made a horrible mistake that cost him his life. No one forced him to get on the plane. It was such a senseless tragedy, but they happen all the time.

The study I've done was not in an effort to clear anyone, if indeed it was Aycock's fault then blame is directly with him. The whole point of this was to show that there was not a complete investigation done, and based on that, I don't see how the finger can be pointed at anyone, after all, to do that, there has to be proof, and since the accident the finger has been always pointed at the pilot. If anything, the cause of the accident should be titled - "Undetermined" .

Your thoughts are "what does it matter", thats fair enough, it doesn't bring anyone back, true, but let me just say this - if a close friend of mine, and band member, was killed in an accident, I would want to know what happened, I would want to know if it could be determined who's fault it was or wasn't, and if it wasn't properly investigated I would want to know why......and I would never rest until I found out, that would be the least my friend deserves.

[Satorius]

Randy's death was tragic but it was his destiny and fate! It took many years of philosophical studies before I understood this. Look at the tragic death of Metallica's Cliff Burton, who was the real driving force behind Metallica's first three albums. He was a very talented bass player and composer. Cliff died in a bus accident in 1986 when they are on tour in Sweden. His fate was to replace the sleeping place on the tour bus with Kirk Hammett. Because he had been longer in the band! But this decision also meant his very own death. If it's time to die you can't escape. It is written in your lifebook.

[distortionplus]

I understand your wanting to know. I look at it like this rightly or wrongly. Accidents happen all the time where a conclusion of cause is never positively determined. All kinds of accidents be it a plane, car, boat, motorcycle, etc..

In a plane altitude is your friend. Making high speed low passes was reckless endangerment to himself and his passengers. I doubt the guy was experienced enough to be doing them. At low altitude it does not take much of an error to cause a crash. My guess is if he had just given them a little ride circling the airfield at a proper altitude they would have all lived much longer lives. For whatever reason he decided to show off and got everyone on board killed.

[AndrewT1976]

Not sure if this has ever been addressed before or not...do they know if Aycock had any previous experiences of these "buzzing" antics? For example, can anyone who flew with him in the past say something like "he was buzzing by house, cars, trees, it really freaked me out!" If there are known witnesses to this behavior, then I think we have our answer.

[GUITARIDOL5682]

For all we know it may have been the request of Randy to take photos of the band and crew on the ground. He may of asked Aycock could you get any closer to the tour bus. He then decided to fly that low and with the plane at such an angle that he could get a good shot out of the window. All speculation but remember Randy did take his camera up with him. Plus they did more then one fly past at a low height.

[xk319]

Yep. I'm curious about all this and am greatful for rokket's thoughtful posts. It really is like idol just said, it could have been so many things, even Randy...once he got up there and acclimated, he may have requested a few fly by's at a more aggressive an angle for photos. Until more people talk about it we'll never know.

[blues_n_cues]

Yep. I'm curious about all this and am greatful for rokket's thoughtful posts. It really is like idol just said, it could have been so many things, even Randy...once he got up there and acclimated, he may have requested a few fly by's at a more aggressive an angle for photos. Until more people talk about it we'll never know.

the fact is,everyone who knows & was on the plane is now dead & has been for a long time. it's time to let it go.

[xk319]

People would let it go I think, but the problem is people who actually watched the event unfold are silent. It's that fact that keeps a lot of people wondering. You end up longing to know what happened because you want to understand why he died. I don't think it's a morbid curiosity, I think it's a natural human desire of needing to know how someone you care for passed on (whether it's a mom and her child or a fan and a musician that made them feel good).

For me, when I first started listening to Randy's work, I knew he died in the crash. I was not curious about it beyond that, because that is all I knew, died in a crash. It was all matter of fact at that time, plane crash, pilot error, tragedy, end of story. Now more things are known with the internet (and more theories). This basically undid my open and shut case of view of it all. Now there were many questions about how, why, who, etc. that before had been answered in my mind. So at one time I was "at peace" with understanding how Randy died. Now that's undone because certain things have come to light. Now I don't know what really happened. And I long to know.

At the same time, it's is perfectly understandable that none of them ever want to talk about it in depth again or ever in public. It had to be just horrible to watch. I was on the phone with my brother when he got into a car accident one time. It was pretty gut wrenching for me to just HEAR that, and he came out ok in the end. That bothered me for a while. I can't imagine watching something unfold like that where someone close to you actually dies.

[Silver Rhoads]

People would let it go I think, but the problem is people who actually watched the event unfold are silent. It's that fact that keeps a lot of people wondering. You end up longing to know what happened because you want to understand why he died. I don't think it's a morbid curiosity, I think it's a natural human desire of needing to know how someone you care for passed on (whether it's a mom and her child or a fan and a musician that made them feel good).

This is an excellent point. It's not a moribid curiosity. It really is just wanting to know what happened to someone we care about even if we didn't know them personally. Sure it will never bring them back, but it doesn't hurt to talk about it.

When I was talking with Kelle Rhoads. He told me he knew about the accident photos floating around. He asked, "Why would anyone want to see that?" I didn't know what to tell him back then, but I wish I had this answer. Maybe someone will mention this to him next time.

[blues_n_cues]

People would let it go I think, but the problem is people who actually watched the event unfold are silent. It's that fact that keeps a lot of people wondering. You end up longing to know what happened because you want to understand why he died. I don't think it's a morbid curiosity, I think it's a natural human desire of needing to know how someone you care for passed on (whether it's a mom and her child or a fan and a musician that made them feel good).

This is an excellent point. It's not a moribid curiosity. It really is just wanting to know what happened to someone we care about even if we didn't know them personally. Sure it will never bring them back, but it doesn't hurt to talk about it.

When I was talking with Kelle Rhoads. He told me he knew about the accident photos floating around. He asked, "Why would anyone want to see that?" I didn't know what to tell him back then, but I wish I had this answer. Maybe someone will mention this to him next time.

morbid curiostiy says it all. the same reason people 'rubberneck" @ an accident scene or rent the faces of death movies.


i read the autopsy report & really wish i didn't know.i just wanted to know it was quick & he didn't suffer.

[Silver Rhoads]

morbid curiostiy says it all. the same reason people 'rubberneck" @ an accident scene or rent the faces of death movies.

It might be for some, not me.

[rokket]

People would let it go I think, but the problem is people who actually watched the event unfold are silent. It's that fact that keeps a lot of people wondering. You end up longing to know what happened because you want to understand why he died. I don't think it's a morbid curiosity, I think it's a natural human desire of needing to know how someone you care for passed on (whether it's a mom and her child or a fan and a musician that made them feel good).

This is an excellent point. It's not a moribid curiosity. It really is just wanting to know what happened to someone we care about even if we didn't know them personally. Sure it will never bring them back, but it doesn't hurt to talk about it.

When I was talking with Kelle Rhoads. He told me he knew about the accident photos floating around. He asked, "Why would anyone want to see that?" I didn't know what to tell him back then, but I wish I had this answer. Maybe someone will mention this to him next time.

morbid curiostiy says it all. the same reason people 'rubberneck" @ an accident scene or rent the faces of death movies.


i read the autopsy report & really wish i didn't know.i just wanted to know it was quick & he didn't suffer.

For some people , yeah, they just want to see or read the horrible details, and nothing more. But others sometimes are looking for answers, like crash investigation units. They don't attend an accident scene to see the nasty side and then walk away, they try to find out what happened. In order to do that you have to look at all of the details, even if you don't want too. Otherwise, you don't get the complete picture and therefore couldn't possibly make a determination.

I didn't have a doubt in my mind about this crash since it happened. It was simple, they got on the plane, the pilot was off his head on coke, he was being stupid taking risks, the wing hit the bus and crashed into the garage. Then, after all these years I actually looked at all the documentation.......now I have several questions and lots of doubts, not because of an over active imagination, but because there's a lot that doesn't add up.